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TOPIC: Under Cut Pricing

RE:Under Cut Pricing 31 May 2009 17:42 #121

BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
. . .he has 18 years experience as a horseshoer and is a trainer and works well with bad horses. . . . I guess everybody has there own needed amount to live on, I just don't see how they can run a business with out making a profit.
.

I got to thinking . . .
. . . if the home is paid for,
I had a cow, pig, chickens, and a big garden, that I raised for food,
a wife that canned, weaved my shirts and pants, and darned my socks,
a wood lot where I got all of my home heating wood,
and my fill of deer, moose, bear meat,
a stream running through my property that supplied good drinking water,
and fish to feed me,
a neighbour that made boots that I could buy for a reasonable amount of money,
I was working out of a 1978 or earlier truck
that ran well and I could fix myself,
and had a set of Atlas MK5 tires from 1971 that just will not wear out,
(they were good ones eh!)
if all I needed was to cover my taxes, coffee, sugar, spices, eye glasses,
and a new hat every 10 years, and my kids were grown up and moved away . . .

Then:
If I made all of my shoes out of skrap steel that the railway left on my property,
right next to the coal bed that my grandpappy dug up one day,
when lookin to dig a water well,
if all my horses were on a 6 week schedule and I worked 6 days a week,
shoeing 4 head a day for $55 each = $7920 or $5280 per month.

It would be easy to shoe for that kinda money.

But my books are not that full, I don't own my own home,
My wife buys my shirts and pants at the thrift store,
throws out my holy socks, buys all our food at the Safeway,
Laughs at the thought of a garden . . .
. . . I need new rubber, and a new ($650) fuel pump, on the truck I just dumped 5G on,
etc. Ad nauseam :D
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:Under Cut Pricing 01 Jun 2009 00:35 #122

  • Travis Reed
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Bradly you forgot to never ever get sick and need medical care....in that case you might be up that stream in that wood boat you built without a paddle....:)
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 05 Jun 2009 18:38 #123

  • solidrockshoer
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Gary_Miller wrote:
No.


Based on recent costs:
Shoes: $10 for a set of four.
Nails: $2.40
Rasp: $2.00
Propane: $2.00
Truck Expense:$16.50 (Based on a round trip of 30 miles, at the current mileage rate of $0.55)
Total cost: $32.90.
And I have yet to figure in a much of other cost, insurance, small buisness tax, ect.

My costs are a bit better
Shoes $7.1
Nails $1.9
Rasp $0.5
Propane $1
Total $10.5

Pads and other items are extra.

Using the IRS deduction and calling that the variable costs of running the truck is something no CPA woth his adding machine will let you get away with.:confused: My cost is about $.20/mile. Gas, oil, tax, title, insurance, tires, brakes the whole slam except paying for the next one. That truck will be old and cheep to. That means I get to deduct $.35/mile more off the taxes then what it actually cost to run it. That's one of the reason that at the end of the day I make more $$$$$ then most people.:p

The reason you must seperate your variable costs of the truck is cause you might shoe one horse/stop or 8. I don't know and neither does your CPA or the IRS. It's a seperate line item on the books.
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 05 Jun 2009 20:23 #124

Travis Reed wrote:
Bradly you forgot to never ever get sick and need medical care....in that case you might be up that stream in that wood boat you built without a paddle....:)
Hey Travis

You're about right, But In Canada medicare is cheep,
and if you can't pay for it the gov. kicks it in for you.


'sides, I went out and purchased a 33lb thrust electric kicker for the canoe,
Cheep at a 100 skins,
It has 5 speeds, #1 pushes it 4-times faster than I can paddle,
and 5th pushes it at about 3-5 knots.
Deep cycle goes full out for about 4 hours +, and I have two.

So I about got that covered . . . but money is always a bit tight in the mountains.
Kinda like an unstretched dried out fir skin, real tight.
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:Under Cut Pricing 10 Jun 2009 01:13 #125

  • Gary_Miller
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OLDTRUCK wrote:
Using the IRS deduction and calling that the variable costs of running the truck is something no CPA woth his adding machine will let you get away with.:confused: My cost is about $.20/mile. Gas, oil, tax, title, insurance, tires, brakes the whole slam except paying for the next one.
The IRS deduction takes into consideration all the above plus wear and tear. That's why I use it to figure my truck costs.

OLDTRUCK wrote:
That truck will be old and cheep to.
I can't disagree with the old and cheap. My box was made to fit a older model Dodge Dakota. I had good luck at picking up decent Dakotas for $1000 bucks. At that price I can replace my truck every year if need be or do any repairs needed.

OLDTRUCK wrote:
That means I get to deduct $.35/mile more off the taxes then what it actually cost to run it. That's one of the reason that at the end of the day I make more $$$$$ then most people.:p
The IRS allows you to use ether actual costs or the IRS milage deduction figures, which ever is the most for you. As of yet my actual costs have not came close to the mileage deductions, more money in my pocket.

OLDTRUCK wrote:
The reason you must seperate your variable costs of the truck is cause you might shoe one horse/stop or 8.
It does not matter if its a one horse stop or 8 horse stop. If you costs are figured into you overall price, it all balances out in the end.

OLDTRUCK wrote:
I don't know and neither does your CPA or the IRS. It's a seperate line item on the books.
It does not matter as long as you keep track of both your actual cost and your mileage. In the end you have to choose which amount to deduct. Of course most would use which ever one give you the best tax advantage.

As for a CPA, I do my own taxes. Its really quite simple if you use good software to keep track of your income and expenses.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 10 Jun 2009 03:14 #126

  • Mike Ferrara
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If you buy a $35,000 truck and figure you can get 150,000 miles on it the truck alone is costing $0.23/mile.

Gas is almost $3/gallon. If you get 15 miles/gallon, that's another $0.2/mile

We're up to $0.43/mile and haven't figured in any repaires, insurance, license/excize tax ect. Heck, the tires on my truck are almost $200 each and I've gone through a bunch of them this past year.
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 10 Jun 2009 04:19 #127

  • Gary_Miller
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
If you buy a $35,000 truck and figure you can get 150,000 miles on it the truck alone is costing $0.23/mile.

Gas is almost $3/gallon. If you get 15 miles/gallon, that's another $0.2/mile

We're up to $0.43/mile and haven't figured in any repaires, insurance, license/excize tax ect. Heck, the tires on my truck are almost $200 each and I've gone through a bunch of them this past year.
All the more reason not to buy a new truck.:D
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 10 Jun 2009 11:10 #128

  • George Geist
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For those who enjoy history and have some time to read a bit you can check out this online book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=gL6fAAAAMAAJ&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html&rview=1
Seems this problem has been around for a long long time. Also check out some of the cool old advertisements:cool:
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 12 Jun 2009 12:53 #129

  • solidrockshoer
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Scabs are just that scabs, a fair days pay & conditions for a fair days work, nothing more nothing less, a standard price set for all standard shoeing, after that it can be up to the individuals to negotiate , but the standard price should stand. how can that be a bad thing for farriers & owners, how is that not fair for all ? why does it have to take a union to have to fight & fight for its members for what is just & right ?.
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 12 Jun 2009 13:44 #130

  • Gary_Miller
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jim-suny wrote:
Scabs are just that scabs,
What is a scab?

jim-suny wrote:
a fair days pay & conditions for a fair days work, nothing more nothing less,
When I set my price that is what I have considered fair pay for that work.
When I except the conditions I work in that what I have considered fair work conditions.

jim-suny wrote:
a standard price set for all standard shoeing, after that it can be up to the individuals to negotiate , but the standard price should stand.
My price is the standard price set by me?

jim-suny wrote:
how can that be a bad thing for farriers & owners, how is that not fair for all ?
My standard price is not a bad thing for farriers or owners. I have set it to be fair to all involved. If an owner don't like my prices or I don't like the working conditions. We both have the option to depart company and go else where. Now how is that a bad thing?

jim-suny wrote:
why does it have to take a union to have to fight & fight for its members for what is just & right ?.
Unions were created to give people a combined voice and to put pressure on large companies to for better working conditions, wages, benifits, and anything else the union members could negotiate with the compnies. It had nothing to do with what was just & right until an agreement was made. After the agreement then its the Unions leaderships responsability to fight for the members it the agreement is breached by ether party.

There is no just, right or wrong only a contract.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 12 Jun 2009 14:32 #131

  • George Geist
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Gary_Miller wrote:
What is a scab?
For your enlightenment:
http://london.sonoma.edu/Writings/WarOfTheClasses/scab.html
or this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_action
Unions were created to give people a combined voice and to put pressure on large companies to for better working conditions, wages, benifits, and anything else the union members could negotiate with the compnies. It had nothing to do with what was just & right until an agreement was made. After the agreement then its the Unions leaderships responsability to fight for the members it the agreement is breached by ether party.

There is no just, right or wrong only a contract.

Only half right. What you described is a largely unskilled industrial organization.
A Trade Union not only does that but they also ensure the integrity of the trade they represent by keeping high standards through training, testing, apprenticeship programs etc. They have their roots in the old European Craft Guilds. See this:
http://latemiddleages.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_medieval_craft_guilds

Ironically enough, in the world of Unionism those 2 groups have never really gotten along well. They'll unite when they have to but will bicker amongst themselves till the cows come home.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 12 Jun 2009 14:57 #132

  • George Geist
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Gary_Miller wrote:
There is no just, right or wrong only a contract.
Comes as no surprise that you should think that way. Here is a place free of organized labor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFPt416wuBE&videos=qLmdAtVZT8Q
or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2VFOzH1Qr0
Best of all let's never forget this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tY1gk6J6zc&NR=1
No right or wrong only a contract?
Organized labor can rightfully take credit for getting rid of this stain upon our national honor. Neocons and globalism threaten to bring it back. Hope I never live to see it.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 12 Jun 2009 15:28 #133

  • Gary_Miller
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Ok, so lets see if I got this right. According to the article. A Scab is a entrepreneur who has determined that he can do the same job for less pay. So he advertises a lower price for his work to the public/employers, in order to gain their business/work.

And a Union is an organization usually compiled of people who are in the same trade. Who ban together in order to have control over the trade and those who work in the trade. They justify this control by convincing those in power that the trade will be better under union control because of forced training requirements, testing and licensing. And this while it takes away personal and individual responsibility and freedoms will ensure integrity in the trade.

George, Did I get that right this time.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 13 Jun 2009 00:07 #134

  • Mike Ferrara
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I think the right/ability to organize (or not organize) is an important part of a free market. There are times when the employer holds all the chips and the prospective employee has very little to bargain with. The company is "organized" by default.

At the same time, unions can, and often do, go terribly wrong. Many union contracts are not doing as much for the member as the members may think. Too often, they stifle competition and remove the incentive (reward) to excel. A union with too much power that consists of a bunch of people who are paid too much and aren't very good at what they do AND think they deserve it because of seniority, is just the kind of thing that gets a company to pick up and move.

That's not even to mention what happens when unions become more like organized crime than organized labor.
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RE:Under Cut Pricing 14 Jun 2009 13:04 #135

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Gary_Miller wrote:
All the more reason not to buy a new truck.:D

You sure beat me to the punch on that one.

POW.

Right in the kisser.

If I pay $3500 for the next truck that will be too much.

One thing this thread has proven is that many folks here may be doing their own taxes but sure should hire a CPA for at least one filing. When they learn to separate fixed from variable costs and learn about the depreciation tables they will understand where the $ goes. Making $ in spite of themselves is what many are doing. A lot of sole proprietor businesses do. They could make more. I guess that’s my point.
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