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TOPIC: Texas A&M wet lab

Texas A&M wet lab 12 Apr 2009 13:10 #1

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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I owe Jason Maki (Texas A&M's resident farrier) a favor.

Donnie Walker, Dave Demaree, Joey Aczon and I had the opportunity to help Jason put on a wet lab for students of the Texas A&M vet school.

The focus of the lab was teaching vet students the rudiments of trimming, as well as shoe removal and replacement. The venue was ideal: Imagine a big exam room with two rows of stocks, cadaver feet roped to each side of every stock, 15-20 vet students, two vets, and five farriers as instructors. It was organized chaos and it went very well!

While the vet students practiced trimming cadaver feet on one side of the room, Donnie used a 24 grit rasp to trim a bunch of feet faster than it takes to tell about it and we got a bunch of dead feet shod in jig time.

Then the fun began.

As farriers, we tend to forget how difficult it is to learn the motor skills necessary to perform our tasks because it's just like riding a bicycle: Once you learn how, there ain't nothing to it and you don't have to think about each move. On the other hand, for someone who has never done it, there's a helluva lot to remember when it comes to trimming and shoeing: a farrier's rasp is a push tool, not pull tool; keep your other hand behind and/or below the knife; you can't cut off much hoof with pull-offs (but using nippers for pull-offs will get you hollered at), and a whole bunch of other stuff.

By the end of the afternoon, most of the vet students had learned how to do a rough trim and were able to pull a shoe off, nail it back on, and get it clinched up without losing any hide. As instructors, we were proud as peacocks of the vet students' extremely rapid progress and every one of us felt privileged to have been a small part of their education.

On a personal note, I had damn near forgotten just how much personal satisfaction is involved in teaching and I sincerely appreciate Jason's asking me to help out.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 12 Apr 2009 16:39 #2

  • Gary Hill
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I was thinking about y'all yesterday. I received the invite from Jason also and told him we had a Sorting scheduled for Sat. I told him to remember me next year, hopefully it will not be on the same Sat?
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 12 Apr 2009 17:53 #3

  • reillyshoe
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Tom,
I could always use some help at New Bolton if you miss teaching ....consider yourself invited. Was this an AEEP event? The vet-farrier short course?
I wonder how you approached the resetting portion of the wet lab. Do you think the students are ready to put shoes back live horses with their recent training, or was this an exercise in understanding the concepts of farrier care in first-hand manner?
P
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 12 Apr 2009 19:18 #4

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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reillyshoe in gray

I could always use some help at New Bolton if you miss teaching ....consider yourself invited.

Thanks, but I miss teaching, not traveling. :) A&M is just around the lake from Ledbetter.

Was this an AEEP event? The vet-farrier short course?


I don't know. I didn't ask and don't remember if anybody told me.

I wonder how you approached the resetting portion of the wet lab.

With neophytes, I approach nailing by stressing that the trademark on the nail head always goes toward the frog and the process is best accomplished by the "tap, tap, tap, whack" method. Yesterday, I made it a point to allow a student to drive a nail in backwards, then Jason and I explained what would have happened had that nail been driven into the hoof of a living horse. I don't think any of the students within hearing will forget the lesson.

Do you think the students are ready to put shoes back live horses with their recent training


I don't believe any of the vet students who attended the lab are ready to make their living by nailing on shoes. That said, it wouldn't be pretty and it might take a while, but I think most of them could get a shoe nailed back on, the nails set, and the clinches made without causing a leak or having the shoe fall off as soon as they put the foot down.

or was this an exercise in understanding the concepts of farrier care in first-hand manner?

The primary focus was teaching the students how to remove a shoe without traumatizing the horse or damaging the hoof capsule and I'm quite confident that everyone who attended the lab can now accomplish that task. Additionally, now that they've nailed on a few shoes and figuratively walked a mile in our shoes, I'd hazard a guess that every one of the vet students has gained some newfound respect for farriers. As one of them put it, "Y'all make it look so easy - but it's not." :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 12 Apr 2009 20:13 #5

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
reillyshoe in gray

I could always use some help at New Bolton if you miss teaching ....consider yourself invited.

Thanks, but I miss teaching, not traveling. :) A&M is just around the lake from Ledbetter.

Was this an AEEP event? The vet-farrier short course?


I don't know. I didn't ask and don't remember if anybody told me.

I wonder how you approached the resetting portion of the wet lab.

With neophytes, I approach nailing by stressing that the trademark on the nail head always goes toward the frog and the process is best accomplished by the "tap, tap, tap, whack" method. Yesterday, I made it a point to allow a student to drive a nail in backwards, then Jason and I explained what would have happened had that nail been driven into the hoof of a living horse. I don't think any of the students within hearing will forget the lesson.

Do you think the students are ready to put shoes back live horses with their recent training


I don't believe any of the vet students who attended the lab are ready to make their living by nailing on shoes. That said, it wouldn't be pretty and it might take a while, but I think most of them could get a shoe nailed back on, the nails set, and the clinches made without causing a leak or having the shoe fall off as soon as they put the foot down.

or was this an exercise in understanding the concepts of farrier care in first-hand manner?

The primary focus was teaching the students how to remove a shoe without traumatizing the horse or damaging the hoof capsule and I'm quite confident that everyone who attended the lab can now accomplish that task. Additionally, now that they've nailed on a few shoes and figuratively walked a mile in our shoes, I'd hazard a guess that every one of the vet students has gained some newfound respect for farriers. As one of them put it, "Y'all make it look so easy - but it's not." :)

Tom,on your piece on teaching students to put the mark of the horsenail to the inside? And expressing the reason? Did you by any chance leave out how important that under any cercumstances the heel nails should be avoided at all times,UNLESS it is absolutely necessary? And how easy it is to hook a horse in the heel,rather than the toe? Oh,never mind~~~~~~~
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 12 Apr 2009 20:30 #6

  • Joey Aczon
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I agree with Tom about this peticular bunch having a little more respect for those of us with our heads below our backsides. There were only 20 or so students, but I must've heard "I don't know how you guys do this" more than once per student. :D

I caught a few pictures, I'll have to get some loaded up.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 12 Apr 2009 22:03 #7

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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anonymous, posting as "Just passin through" in gray

Tom,on your piece on teaching students to put the mark of the horsenail to the inside? And expressing the reason?

Did you miss the part about "tap, tap, tap, whack"? One would think an astute observer of the human comedy like yourself would have understood the obvious necessity for explaining the action of the bevel as the nail is driven because the difference between "tap" and "whack" on the nail's movement is a function of the bevel.

Did you by any chance leave out how important that under any cercumstances the heel nails should be avoided at all times, UNLESS it is absolutely necessary?

Sez who? Heel nails hold no particular hazards for anyone resetting an unmodified shoe on an untrimmed hoof - most probably because they'll be using the old nail holes.

And how easy it is to hook a horse in the heel,rather than the toe?

In my experience, I've found a neophyte's stabbing a horse is easily done with nails in either end of the nail pattern until they learn which way to turn a nail. And, why.

Oh,never mind

Not to worry, I don't mind. Do you still have Jeff's back? :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 12 Apr 2009 22:24 #8

  • reillyshoe
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The rationale for training vets to pull shoes is readily apparent. If a vet pulls into a barn to take radiographs, it often requires the shoes to be removed. With some training, I would trust some students to put the shoe back on in the same nails in the same nail holes previously used. This would be better for the horse, and more convenient for the owner. I don't have the ability to teach this to students in the time allowed, but I wondered if maybe you guys are better teachers.:)
P
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 12 Apr 2009 22:27 #9

  • reillyshoe
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Joey Aczon wrote:
I agree with Tom about this peticular bunch having a little more respect for those of us with our heads below our backsides. There were only 20 or so students, but I must've heard "I don't know how you guys do this" more than once per student. :D

One of the things I teach the students here is the importance of giving the horse a rest every few minutes.:)
P
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 13 Apr 2009 00:36 #10

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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As an addendum, probably the best part of the whole day was getting to meet Jason, Donnie, Dave and Joey. Any of this bunch will do to ride the river with. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 13 Apr 2009 01:08 #11

  • George Geist
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Just passin through~ wrote:
Did you by any chance leave out how important that under any cercumstances the heel nails should be avoided at all times,UNLESS it is absolutely necessary?
Good to see you back JPT~:)
Why do you say this? To best of my recollection I've never seen it slow down a racehorse:cool:
George
For another fun place to play........
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Come over and say hello.
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 13 Apr 2009 03:53 #12

  • J.H. shoeing
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
As an addendum, probably the best part of the whole day was getting to meet Jason, Donnie, Dave and Joey. Any of this bunch will do to ride the river with. :)

I really wanted to come too Mr.Tom, but he had a little egg hunting to do and a 42 match;)
Jeff Holder

Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 13 Apr 2009 13:40 #13

George Geist wrote:
Good to see you back JPT~:)
Why do you say this? To best of my recollection I've never seen it slow down a racehorse:cool:
George

George,i feel the most important nail in shoeing a horse are the heel nails.And i was just fishing Tom to see if that was being taught.If you look closely at everybodys pics,nobody uses heel nails.And alot of people only use 4 nails with
no heel nails.
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 13 Apr 2009 13:43 #14

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
anonymous, posting as "Just passin through" in gray

Tom,on your piece on teaching students to put the mark of the horsenail to the inside? And expressing the reason?

Did you miss the part about "tap, tap, tap, whack"? One would think an astute observer of the human comedy like yourself would have understood the obvious necessity for explaining the action of the bevel as the nail is driven because the difference between "tap" and "whack" on the nail's movement is a function of the bevel.

Did you by any chance leave out how important that under any cercumstances the heel nails should be avoided at all times, UNLESS it is absolutely necessary?

Sez who? Heel nails hold no particular hazards for anyone resetting an unmodified shoe on an untrimmed hoof - most probably because they'll be using the old nail holes.

And how easy it is to hook a horse in the heel,rather than the toe?

In my experience, I've found a neophyte's stabbing a horse is easily done with nails in either end of the nail pattern until they learn which way to turn a nail. And, why.

Oh,never mind

Not to worry, I don't mind. Do you still have Jeff's back? :)

Tom posting as Tom,i don't have to cover Jeffs back,he is a regestered guild
member that passed his test.Have you passed the guild test yet?
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RE:Texas A&M wet lab 13 Apr 2009 13:58 #15

reillyshoe wrote:
The rationale for training vets to pull shoes is readily apparent. If a vet pulls into a barn to take radiographs, it often requires the shoes to be removed. With some training, I would trust some students to put the shoe back on in the same nails in the same nail holes previously used. This would be better for the horse, and more convenient for the owner. I don't have the ability to teach this to students in the time allowed, but I wondered if maybe you guys are better teachers.:)

I'll Help!!!!!:)

I can come on some Friday mornings and help you if you like!!!!!:)

Linda Marie
________
Honda xl75
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