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TOPIC: The ELPO convention

The ELPO convention 22 Mar 2009 20:18 #1

  • calshoer
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Well we just finished up the first ELPO convention in Pueblo Colorado,Don't have the head count but I believe about half of the total ELPO membership attended. There were about 60 members in attendance, if I heard right. Wednesday evening I don't know the head count, as the public was also welcome and there were plenty it was a big room and it was pretty full.


Among the great presenters, Clive Meers Rainger from the UK did a terrific talk about hind end issues related to negative palmer angles. He discussed using the hairline angles of the hind feet to help farriers recognize NPA.
He had some great information and pictures of before and after shoeings in horses with subtle hind end movement and lameness issues due to NPA.

The pictures of the change in hind stride length were very revealing, particularly the change in the posterior portion of the stride,(the push), which according to Clive should be as long as the anterior part in a sound horse.
As well ,his series of photos of several horses showing the changes in resting stance before and after shoeing changes were very enlightening.

Dr.Gayle Trotter from Texas did two talks. One on using nutraceuticals for joint health and how each different ingredient in a supplement works on the body. Another talk on acupuncture and chiropractic as adjunct therapies.

He also was able to demonstrate some of his chiropractic evaluation techniques on some of the horses that were brought in for other demonstrations.

Dave Nicholls did a really good talk on how farriery is changing and how it may continue to move forward in this century.

Dr. Barbara Page and Dr.Trotter offered mini workshops on reading radiographs for the farrier.

There were two forging mini workshops.
The included mostly how to make keg shoe modifications, but people also got to work on whatever things they wanted to work on in their own forging. Troy Kerr and Isaak Kerr (not elated)put on one of them and my apologies to whoever did the first one, because I was out in another area of the convention and don't know who that was ...but I'll find out.

Gene Legerski worked with a difficult mare in the horsemanship demonstration. It is really nice to see a hand with such a good feel for a horse. I think that mare wanted to go home with him when he was done.

Gene Ovnicek did four shoeing demonstrations with some pretty challenging lamenesses. He also did a workshop discussion on treatment packages.

Becky Mabbutt from the UK also contributed with business workshop.

Brady Hanna did workshops on leverage testing.

Several people including Chad and Cody Ovnicek, Becky Mabbutt, and David Nicholls all did hoof evaluation and mapping workshops.

It looked like everyone had a good time and the feedback so far has been overall very good.
There were some little glitches logistically, and the Fairgrounds facility for the two days with the horses got a bit dusty but overall it was a good event, IMO .
The ELPO staff asked for lots of feedback and will take all suggestions into consideration for next year. Therefore next year should run smoother and be and even better educational event.

Oh yeah......the scratch scramble golf tourney, horseshoe games and barbecue was a nice ending to the whole thing. Those who left after Friday....you missed some great food :p
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:The ELPO convention 22 Mar 2009 22:42 #2

  • Jaye Perry
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calshoer........


Among the great presenters, Clive Meers Rainger from the UK did a terrific talk about hind end issues related to negative palmer angles. He discussed using the hairline angles of the hind feet to help farriers recognize NPA.
He had some great information and pictures of before and after shoeings in horses with subtle hind end movement and lameness issues due to NPA.

The pictures of the change in hind stride length were very revealing, particularly the change in the posterior portion of the stride,(the push), which according to Clive should be as long as the anterior part in a sound horse.
......


Is that with a short toe, pointed toe or breakover pulled back?

learned a lot at '96 Olympics about hind end stride lengths in F.E.I. level horses,,,, explain your observations for my mentality; please.....:confused:
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RE:The ELPO convention 23 Mar 2009 01:00 #3

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Is that with a short toe, pointed toe or breakover pulled back?
The shoeing done on the various horses in his presentation was individual to each horse. Whatever needed fixing.
Every one was a little different in its needs.
You had to be there to see the pictures and hear the explanations about each horse.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:The ELPO convention 23 Mar 2009 01:13 #4

  • Jaye Perry
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calshoer...
You had to be there to see the pictures and hear the explanations about each horse.
That was exactly what I expected from you Patty; anonymous response, that's why I posted:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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RE:The ELPO convention 23 Mar 2009 01:32 #5

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Its not "anonymous" because you know who I am.....:D
That said, there was NOT any one kind of correction nor any"one size fits all" ....REALLY.
His talk was all about each individual horse's stance, stride, conformation and movement and how the shoeing changed it. I'm sorry if you don't believe me, you should have been there.

NOW....if you have any further comments about shoeing technicalities, rather than discussing this clinic in general, take it to another thread. Don't hijack this one for that purpose.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:The ELPO convention 24 Mar 2009 09:35 #6

  • Jaye Perry
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calshoer wrote:
Its not "anonymous" because you know who I am.....:D
That said, there was NOT any one kind of correction nor any"one size fits all" ....REALLY.
His talk was all about each individual horse's stance, stride, conformation and movement and how the shoeing changed it. I'm sorry if you don't believe me, you should have been there.

NOW....if you have any further comments about shoeing technicalities, rather than discussing this clinic in general, take it to another thread. Don't hijack this one for that purpose.

i asked for detail and you dismissed my questions.
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RE:The ELPO convention 24 Mar 2009 14:10 #7

  • Cyber Farrier
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Jaye Perry wrote:
I asked for detail and you dismissed my questions.

I disagree. The answer was quite specific: "The shoeing done on the various horses in his presentation was individual to each horse. Whatever needed fixing.
Every one was a little different in its needs.
You had to be there to see the pictures and hear the explanations about each horse."

It's not her job to act as a secretary and report specifics. This is an "overview" thread about the clinic, not a "report the details" thread. Perhaps some videos will become available, or maybe there was someone in attendance who took keen interest in a specific presentation, took copious notes, and wants to report on it. But that's not Patty's job, so please don't burden her with it.

Baron
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RE:The ELPO convention 24 Mar 2009 18:30 #8

  • Cyber Farrier
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Rick Burten actually posted this reply to Jaye, but he double posted by accident. When I deleted one of the duplicates, both disappeared. So I am reposting Rick's post.

Jaye Perry wrote:
Is that with a short toe, pointed toe or breakover pulled back?

Hi Jaye,

I too was there so I'll try to offer what I saw.

The horses were of the short footed variety, though a few had been let go longer so that it would have foot to work with for the conference.

Leverage testing of all limbs was undertaken and the results recorded so that they could be used as a part of the trimming/shoeing protocol. All feet were mapped and trimmed accordingly. Since the horses in question had soundness issues, different treatment packages were tried. Clogs, PLR's both wedged and flat, Impression Material, Magic Cushion, rails of different heights and in different combinations were applied to try to find the most acceptable [to the horse] treatment package. There was no radiographic equipment available, so no before or after rads were able to be taken.

I'm not sure what you mean when you ask, 'short toe, pointed toe', but from what I was able to observe, the toes were trimmed to an appropriate length{for the horse] and I didn't see any toes , front or hind, that were left 'pointed'. I also think it is safe to say, based on my observations, that the breakover and heel support locations were 'pulled back', again, based on the hoof mapping. Additionally, the style of shoe/pad(s) used were employed to ease breakover all around the hoof capsule. Rails were added in an effort to achieve either a flat or heel first landing. I think the results were "mixed" and that close follow-up visits by the attending farrier are indicated.

I didn't have a camera, so I didn't photograph the procedures. There was always a video camera running and focused on the task at hand, so a video record does exist. I don't know when or if that record will be made to the public. You should contact the office for that information.

I will say that I thoroughly enjoyed the conference. Met a lot of people, absorbed a lot of information that I am still processing, and liked the fact that everyone there was there to learn and did so without involving their egos. Kinda like the atmosphere at the IHCS.

Hope this helps answer your questions, and if you need more info, just ask and I'll try to oblige you. No promises though as my memory ain't what it used to be. :eek: :o :)

Rick
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RE:The ELPO convention 25 Mar 2009 00:05 #9

  • Jaye Perry
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Cyber Farrier~~Rick Burten_ ....

I'm not sure what you mean when you ask, 'short toe, pointed toe', but from what I was able to observe, the toes were trimmed to an appropriate length{for the horse] and I didn't see any toes , front or hind, that were left 'pointed'. I also think it is safe to say, based on my observations, that the breakover and heel support locations were 'pulled back', again, based on the hoof mapping. Additionally, the style of shoe/pad(s) used were employed to ease breakover all around the hoof capsule. Rails were added in an effort to achieve either a flat or heel first landing. I think the results were "mixed" and that close follow-up visits by the attending farrier are indicated.

...
Thanks Rick for the synopsis; it didn't hurt a bit, did it?:rolleyes:.
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RE:The ELPO convention 25 Mar 2009 01:11 #10

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I will also add for those of you who attended: (given Rick's statement that the attending farriers should follow up)
I Checked on the first demo horse, the chestnut that was the first leverage test horse who had the ringbone in the hind leg and lame left fore.
I checked him Sunday PM and he was MUCH better.

His hind actually looked better than the four years I have been doing him, now that he is in the the rails. (taller medial rail than lateral) .
The left fore was still lame, visible at a trot but not a walk, and much less than when he left the clinic after taking the bad step .(you who were there saw that )
Pretty much that horse gets quite lame in front for a few weeks every time he steps on anything uneven (that's his M.O.) So he should be fine.
Owner is feeling good about it as well.

BTW the owner told me she has never been treated so well by so many people in one place as she was at that conference.
She said to thank everyone.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:The ELPO convention 25 Mar 2009 14:50 #11

  • brian robertson
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I suppose euthanasia, instead of a life of chronic pain, is too much to ask for
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RE:The ELPO convention 25 Mar 2009 16:57 #12

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Given that You don't know that horse or the owner,nor his long history, nor the owners expectations,that statement was uncalled for.
He is not any way in awful pain, nor does the lameness usually persist for very long after he does tweak the ringbone.
The owner will do the right thing if the right time comes. This horse is part of her family and her little 4 year old gransdson is learning to ride on him. Riding is now limited to flat ground at a walk and the horse is fine that way.
If you want to discuss specifics of a case, start it in another thread.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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