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TOPIC: Money maker!

RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 13:06 #16

Bill Adams wrote:
Insist on payment at the time of services. "If my tools are loaded, your bill is past due".
I have lost $120 in seventeen years.

Not on the racetrack, or on thoroughbred farms where you do a complete round of shoeing and then bill for the work. The trainers get paid by the owners once a month, and the check for the shoeing bill is always attached there after. That's how platers get burned in the racing industry. If the tracks were Unionized, that would all change. Only jockeys are paid out of the purse monies "BEFORE" the owner recieves the purse monies for the race. All others are under the mercy of the owners, including the trainer, vets, platers, hay & grain man, ect. This is what's need to correct the racing industry. Owners weld a lot of power within the racing community; and I just don't see it changing any time soon.

PS: read up on the Jockeys article under the Political area.

Also, in some show barns, they ask you to shoe a horse and give a bill for the owner to mail you a check, TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 13:21 #17

  • Mike Ferrara
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
Also, in some show barns, they ask you to shoe a horse and give a bill for the owner to mail you a check, TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bill through the mail for the vast majority of the horses I shoe. I get paid on the spot for backyard stuff but I don't do much of that.
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RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 13:32 #18

  • Gary_Miller
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
If the tracks were Unionized, that would all change. Only jockeys are paid out of the purse monies "BEFORE" the owner recieves the purse monies for the race. All others are under the mercy of the owners, including the trainer, vets, platers, hay & grain man, ect. This is what's need to correct the racing industry. Owners weld a lot of power within the racing community; and I just don't see it changing any time soon.
The only way this will change if the platers insist on payment at time of service.

ladyblacksmith wrote:
Also, in some show barns, they ask you to shoe a horse and give a bill for the owner to mail you a check, TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I bill all my owners directly that way I don't have a middle man. If the horse is at a barn I call the owner the night before so they can let the barn owner know what time I will be there. We discuss what the cost will be and usually the check is in the mail the next day.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 13:42 #19

Gary_Miller wrote:
The only way this will change if the platers insist on payment at time of service.

I bill all my owners directly that way I don't have a middle man. If the horse is at a barn I call the owner the night before so they can let the barn owner know what time I will be there. We discuss what the cost will be and usually the check is in the mail the next day.

I wish that were true, but trainers change owners every day, and when a horse is claimed, it changes owners, and if the bills are not paid up for the VET, plater, or anyone else....to bad.....
A lot of these owners have their horses with several different trainers in different states, in different barns at different tracks.....this is a big problem within the racing industry.
Horses are claimed everyday, with bills not paid on them from previous vets, platers, ect.
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RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 13:52 #20

  • Gary_Miller
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HOSSBOSS wrote:
Most of you farriers have a great shoeing business i asume. But i'm sure you're not "millionares" yet LOL!:-D
My buisness is great because I make it great. I enjoy farrier work and really enjoy beilng my own boss. That to me is worth a million buck, after having worked for others on their time schedule. I would find it very hard to go back to a full time job working for someone else.

HOSSBOSS wrote:
On average. What do you full time farriers average weekly or monthy?
It depends on whats scheduled and the time of the year.

HOSSBOSS wrote:
Do you feel that you're waay.. ahead of the average farrier or are you struggling behind the 8 ball?
I feel I'm average for those who have been in the buisness as long as I have.

HOSSBOSS wrote:
How about part time farriers. Are you satisfied with what you earn or do you wish you had more work out there to make ends meet?HOSSBOSS;149370 wrote:
I'm full time and still building my buisness so I still have room for more work. How ever I'm satisified with what I do have.
HOSSBOSS;149370 wrote:
I am a part timer that ALWAY'S look's for work, but at the same time i dunno if i'd want to take on a 20 horse barn ether:-( But i do wish i could make more money, but it's so... hard when you have TONS of competition up against you:,-(
Everyone is alway looking for work to replace lost horses on their schedule. Some more than others. Take what you can get an weed out the bad as you go. There will alway be someone who charges less then you as well as someone who charges more than you. Just make sure you charge enough so that your not under cutting and driving down the average price in your area.

HOSSBOSS wrote:
Do you find it's competitive around your area of work or are you pleased with what you got?
There will alway be competition, that part of buisness, don't worry about what the other guy is doing just worry about yourself. Make sure you provide a good service at a fare price for you the horse owner and other farriers in the area, and you will do just fine. It takes time to build a good cliental.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 13:59 #21

  • Gary_Miller
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
I wish that were true, but trainers change owners every day, and when a horse is claimed, it changes owners, and if the bills are not paid up for the VET, plater, or anyone else....to bad.....
A lot of these owners have their horses with several different trainers in different states, in different barns at different tracks.....this is a big problem within the racing industry.
Horses are claimed everyday, with bills not paid on them from previous vets, platers, ect.
That's why all the platers have to get togeather and insist on payment at time of service from the trainer and if you don't get paid you pull the shoes. It would take all the platers working togeather to make it work though. Its easier said than done.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 14:17 #22

  • George Geist
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Gary_Miller wrote:
That's why all the platers have to get togeather and insist on payment at time of service from the trainer and if you don't get paid you pull the shoes. It would take all the platers working togeather to make it work though. Its easier said than done.
Is a little more complicated than that Gary.

Track management tends to be in the pocket of the HBPA who tend to be somewhat hostile to platers and anybody else their liable to have to pay.

For this reason track management will turn a blind eye or let happen with a wink and nod people like Patty scabbing or working while unlicensed for bad paying trainers. From their point of view their doing what they need to do to keep the horses running and races filled.

Needless to say everyone suffers from stuff like this and is one of the factors contributing to the sport's image problem as well as depressed pay scales for the people involved in it.

Racetracks are a world unto themselves as is their politics.
George
For another fun place to play........
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RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 16:58 #23

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Bill Adams in gray

Insist on payment at the time of services. "If my tools are loaded, your bill is past due". I have lost $120 in seventeen years.


Damn! I can sure see why you've lost so much money. Being a laid back quiche-eating californio, you ain't asking for your money soon enough. On those rare occasions somebody is stoopid enough to lure me out of retirement, the bill is past due as soon as the last foot hits the ground.

For some reason, money in my pocket makes my anvil lighter and my tools easier to load. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 18:17 #24

  • solidrockshoer
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It's been quite a while since I worked on the track, and hated the environment, some love it, different strokes for ......., but the routine here has always been to carry a bill for most clients because of the overhead and traditional "I'll get you later" set-up. One good friend I spoke to some time ago said he had $7,000.00 on the books at any given time. This man is a top farrier and well respected on the circuit, so that's a pretty good indication of the norm here. That would scare the c r a p out of me. :eek:


Tom Stoval wrote:
Damn! I can sure see why you've lost so much money. Being a laid back quiche-eating californio, you ain't asking for your money soon enough. On those rare occasions somebody is stoopid enough to lure me out of retirement, the bill is past due as soon as the last foot hits the ground.

Tom, I'm sure I can see your tongue in cheek from here...unless that's a wad of chewing tobacco. :) In the normal world off the track, absolutely.
For some reason, money in my pocket makes my anvil lighter and my tools easier to load.

You to eh.

regards. John
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RE:Money maker! 12 Mar 2009 22:27 #25

  • vthorseshoe
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Hoss Boss;
youv'e had a lot of different responce's to your questions.

Asking someone how much they make is a personal question some will answer and others will take offence at.
As you have seen on this board.

Bill Adams had a good responce when he said," Do one horse at a time and each foot better than the last"
What he meant was;
The quality of your work is what will build your business.

Whether it is being on time or being presentable,(clean clothes, hair cut, etc) the very best work you can do when shoeing.
How do you finish your work ? Does it turn the owners eye and get a responce of " Whew ! that looks nice !!"
If you do, these things will bring in the customers from word of mouth.
Word of mouth will work in both directions.
If your sloppy and do sloppy work then you probably wouldn't care to hear what folks say and should understand why customers aren't knocking on your door.

Prices are something you set.
Check the folks in your area see what the high is and what the low is.
Don't under cut anyone. It will come back to bite you in the butt.

Folks who shop for "cheap" usually are bad paying or bad customers that switch farriers like you change your shorts.

When your book starts to grow only take on what you can handle.
A really large book will find your work suffering in order to get all the horses done.
You will be exhausted and your attitude will suffer.
Spare time will be something you hear others talk about.

Keep your book small and your prices at a rate where you make money but work less.
Remember this is accomplished by doing quality work and constantly learning how to improve your work and business.

It matters not if you are part time or full time the rules are the same.

Demand payment ALWAYS when the work is done.
You are not a bank floating a loan.
The longer you wait for the money the less value it holds, (unless you charge interest )

I, Like Bill, have only lost around $100. in all my years working under horses.
I may donate my time, but I don't get stiffed.

As Tom stated, "By the time the last foot hits the ground"
I should be paid.

Hope this helps.....

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Money maker! 13 Mar 2009 01:00 #26

  • Ken Norman
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Hoss Boss
I agreee with Bruce. I have been shoeing for 18 years and charge what I want. I am and have been on the high end of what most farriers around here charge. I can remember meeting a farrier several years ago who thanked me for raising the bar ( so to speak ) on what was being charged. I too think I have only been screwed out of 75.00 I have had to wait on some $ and wondered whether I would ever see it, but it all came. The 75 was for 1 shoe ( a full support shoe ) that I put on a horse with a fractured coffin bone and that was 9 years ago. The owner wasn't there, only the trainer and I left the bill with her to give to the owner. Now I would talk to the owner and let them know what the charges would be and that I accept to be paid at time of service . Hope this helps. ken
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RE:Money maker! 13 Mar 2009 02:11 #27

  • Bill Adams
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Damn! I can sure see why you've lost so much money. Being a laid back quiche-eating californio, you ain't asking for your money soon enough. )

I like to refer to quiche as Macho Cheese Pie. Trying to think of a way to masulinize the chilled Chardonnay that goes so well with it.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Money maker! 13 Mar 2009 03:11 #28

  • Gary Hill
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I am constantly on my friends hinney about trying to get him to raise his prices! He moans about the people he works for , for not haveing decent places to work and the late ( after they get home from their real jobs ) work he does. He called me yesterday and said , "You should be proud of me, I charged $100 for sliders." I told him great and then asked how things went makeing them? ( I push him to use his forge) He said , "no I didn't make em, I had some slideing plates I had bought and nailed them on!" I then called him a " cheater"! So I just give up , we split the cost of over $700 worth of steel, 3/8 X 3/4 and 5/16 X 3/4 and he hasn't used one stick up yet!? He says it is too easy to just use kegs and the only practice he wants to do is rope.:eek: That fits right in with the additude of most of the "hoofcare" providers in my sandpile.:confused: Even the best CJF uses nothing but cheap Malayasians.:rolleyes:
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Money maker! 13 Mar 2009 04:46 #29

  • Bill Adams
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Hey George and Linda,
Sounds like all those platers need to organize. Won't have to worry about those pesky secret ballots now either. Big grin.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Money maker! 13 Mar 2009 05:07 #30

  • Clint Burrell
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It shouldn't be a problem getting paid on the track.Unless it's changed,trainers bill monthly for shoeing.We always had first months training in advance including shoeing.Can't predict the special/corrective stuff of course.Money was in the secretaries office.Only time I remember a problem was when the track mgr. and sec. ran off w/ horseman's accts.Still collected most of that(@$20,000).Wait long enough and w/ the right intensives, most will pay.That was when dad was plating,I think I only had one bill not paid.$75 I think and I knew I probably wouldn't get it,done it for the horse I guess.:)

Clint
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You just brought a swichblade
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