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TOPIC: HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees?

HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 14 Aug 2005 19:20 #1

I´ve decided to raise my prices of trimming and shoeing because of everything has become so much more expensive and because I have got too many kicks from an unruly horses.

I do already know that I´m losing some of my clients and am not even sure if I can resume as a full-time farrier if lose too many of them. But I have decided to do it anyway.

How many clients did you lose after all after raising your prices last time?

Thanks of your comments by now.

Anita
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 14 Aug 2005 22:35 #2

Clients come and go anyway, they will often get whoever is cheapest. When I raise my prices, I find that the ones that leave are the ones that don't have their horse's best interest at heart anyway. Usually they are the ones that have just bought one(or two) new horses, then realize they forgot to ADD the cost of footwork for these additional horses to their budget; then they think (and often ask) if I will give them a mult--horse discount! HAH! I show them my card, where it says: "Discounts given to three legged horses only!" :D

Raise your prices! Don't shoe cheap! Some clients will go, but the better ones will stay and the new ones will be a better class of caretaker (usually). Take the time to sit down and do a business cost analysis so you know exactly what you HAVE to earn daily to meet your own expenses then you can figure how many horse you want to do in a day and how many per week, so you can figure out your base rates.

My mentor cautioned to figure the analysis based on trims- because not everyone needs or wants shoes, so shoeing money earned becomes extra money for that inevitable rainy day. :)
Regards,
Kim

Those who only consider cost, do NOT consider the cost to the horse!

The more we know, the more we know we need to know more! Ya know?
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 14 Aug 2005 22:40 #3

Anita,
Yes, but I have always replaced them (quickly) with better clients. If you are not making enough to cover your expenses, and turn a reasonable profit, why should you risk harm to yourself, and layout your cash to subsidize someone else's horse habit? Are you losing money, if they flee like rats on a sinkingship? if you were not making any on the clients to start you are actually ahead of the game, besuase you do not have the expense and labor layed out to them. figure out what it costs you to do a horse( it will frighten you!), then figure how much you want to make per horse. Add your charge to your expenses, and that is what you should charge.
With feul, supplies, insurances, truck expenses etc, each and every horse costs me around $60! I figured it out while staring at the winsheild last year, and my average profit for all horses, shod or trimmed, was $10 a foot.
You could not pay the average client ten bucks to hold a foot up for 5 minutes, let alone work on it!!!!!!!!
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 15 Aug 2005 00:45 #4

  • Red Amor
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Anita
Look about and fine the average to top price and place your leaning towards the higher

Make sure you try your damedest to do the best job you possibley can always , and always try to do a better job than the last guy or gal

dont get into putting down others work , just let yours speek for itself and you'll be right :)

Loyalty is rear but its is there , the longer your in the game the more you'll find remember you may get burned now and them but in the long run you will reap what you soe
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 15 Aug 2005 05:12 #5

  • Bill Adams
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You won't lose any clients that you want to keep. I have never lost any because I raised my prices. If people call and only ask for a price I tell them I'm not taking clients, tell them my price, and refer them to a couple of guys whoi are five bucks higher than me.
I get far more clients asking me if I'm "still only" such and such a price than complane about the raise, and then they only complain in genral not against me personaly. Thats probably because they know fast I'de blow them off if they did.
Here is what you say if any one complains, Tell them you have decided to become a muliti-millionaire in this business instead of a plain old millionaire.
I would bet that no one in your clienttel uses their horse for income. They are all pleasure/luxurey items. Why should you and your dependents finance their hobby?
my $0.02,
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 15 Aug 2005 05:58 #6

Thanks,
you all gave me very good answers.

I´m relieved, maybe I won´t lose all my clients after all ;)
Almost 50 % of my shoeings and trims are unruly and 10 % of them are dangerous to shoe or trim, but those clients haven´t just let me go and I´ve been too soft to tell I won´t do them no longer. I think raising my prices will scare them off :D

I had some extra time this weekend to make some calculations as you told me above and the results really were frightening me :)

Those loss making clients are from my very first year when I started out as a farrier, I just had to take what I could get to live, didn´t have another job at that time.

Somehow it feels bad to say goodbay long time customers, but there´s no point to hurt myself again and again. Some horses don´t ever learn to stand for farriers if the owner isn´t continuously train them in between my visits. :(

Anita
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 16 Aug 2005 05:25 #7

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edited*****
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 28 Oct 2005 10:46 #8

  • shoesofiron
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I just lost a client not because I raised prices, but because there are so many other guys in my area that are willing to do it so much cheaper.
In my area, I start at $100 for shoes plus a farm call. This client has 7 horses and is now getting them done for $65 each, $20 for trims, $40 for front-footers.
Oh well!
I sent her my "Dear Former Client" form letter... one of only two I've ever snet out. It explains the realities of the industry and the perceptions many owners have that are not in line with how the real world works.
Of course, her horses are not used hard or a lot, and she's a fairly new owner.
At least she didn't go with the guy who charges $35 for shoes WITH borium and $10 trims....
I really think in a case like this, where I've been punctual, polite and her horses have been sound... she's grown complacent and will see the difference shortly.
She's married to a doctor who sees the horses as an unneccessary expense.
Therein lies the rub.
In cases like this, returning clients... or ones who've quit then come back after seeing the error of their ways...always go back to the top of the fee list.
I hated to see her go, but I also understand how increasing living costs have hemmed some folks in with their horses. We parted on great terms but the hardest part for me is knowing there is one horse in her barn with a capsular deformity the new guy will more than likely be shooting in the dark about. It took me almost 6 months to get him useable and he's been "sound" ever since.
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 28 Oct 2005 11:28 #9

Yes, some very good clients to. A couple of times I was suprised they changed just to get the work done cheaper, thought they cared about good work. I like Scott's letter idea to a former client. I always feel like I should do something when this happens, I usually just forget about it and move on and I am not sure that is the right thing to do as a buisness. Same deal as you, got horses moving good and improved the qaulity of there feet. I did hear about one that is haveing all sorts of trouble and has been advised by others to call me back, I was told she doenst have the nerve to call me back. I am not going to call. I think it would be more appropriate for her to call me if she wants to hire me back. I have had customers call me back after getting out of horses for awhile and then getting back into it.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 30 Oct 2005 05:21 #10

Like Jason said, figure out how much it costs you to do business, decide on your profit and there are your prices.
Profit should be figured out by your lifestyle, and also you experience. If you're in your first five years of shoeing, you're not going to make as much profit as someone that's in thier 10th year, unless you've positioned yourself to do so. Positioning is a whole other ball of wax.

Anyway, once you know how much you "need" to charge, figure out what you "want" to charge and go from there. After that, raise your prices in small increments two or three times a year until you've raised your prices at least 10%. That way you may loose 5% of your business, but you'll still make more money, and do less work, or you have room to take on better paying accounts. Try to stay away from having different prices for different clients. Although I find it easier to raise my prices for all "new" clients before raising them on the old. Example:

Lets say that in Jan. of 05' you were charging $100 for 4 plain shoes
$60 for front shoes
$35 for trims

in April all new calls will be charged $110 for four shoes
$65 for fronts
$35 for trims

in October all old clients are $110 for 4 shoes
$65 for fronts
$35 for trims
BUT
all new calls are $120 for 4 shoes
$70 for fronts
$40 for trims
come January, everyone gets moved up. Make sense? :confused:

Dave
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 01 Nov 2005 10:50 #11

  • shoesofiron
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This is in two parts because it's long, wordy and too big to fit in one posting.
It reflects some of the frustration of running a multi-county rural farrier service.

Part One:

Dear _______________________________________:

If you're reading this, then most likely you have informed me that you will no longer be requiring my services due to my seemingly high and increasing fees.
And right up front I want you to know that I understand completely how you feel.
In fact, I have no problem with your decision but you need to be aware of a few things about the farrier business.
First of all, I've been at this game for a good many years and I know how much it takes to make ends meet. I know how much work I have to have and how much it costs to do every job. I also know how much work my body can withstand and still maintain a reasonable workload over the (hopefully) many years to come. Finally, I know the worth of my profession. Due to the extreme physical strain, it is difficult to over pay any farrier. I want to point out some major differences in our lifestyles and livings:
People who have "real jobs" put in between 40-60 hours a week and go home.
They usually knock down somewhere between $30,000-$60,000 (or more) a year plus benefits like paid vacations, medical coverage and a retirement package.
Normally, they have no risk involved in their jobs, the employer is who takes all the risk.
Their earning potential climbs with every year they continue, in other words, they make more the 35th year than they did the 10th.

Farriers deserve all of those benefits that I just listed for "real people", but things work a little differently for us as.
People also think that we are under horses 40 hours a week and make several thousand dollars weekly. It just doesn’t work that way. We have travel time to and from barns. We have supply runs, truck maintenance, bad weather days, sick days, forgotten appointments by clients, unruly horses, unexpected breakdowns and repairs, appointments to make, the occasional sprung or cast shoe and other inconveniences that must be included into the week and subtracted from the time we’re actually under horses making money.
The amount of money we make is directly related to the number of horses we can handle, how many clients we have and how well each horse stands for the work being done. Experience and expertise are almost intangible values because the vast majority of owners think all shoeing is equal, with the personality of the shoer and price being the prime concerns over their skills and education. I’ve heard it said many times that good farriers are hard to find but I will tell you that good clients are becoming almost as rare as a good farrier. And I promise you – all shoeing is NOT equal.
Farriers have an extreme amount of risk involved every day and with every job. The next fly that lands on a horse could be the end of our career and ability to earn an income at any other type of vocation.
We have to be able to withstand prolonged periods of physical strain. We have to possess a strong skeletal framework and a high degree of manual dexterity. We have to have (or should have to have) a thorough knowledge of equine locomotion, anatomy, pathology and metallurgy. We have to know how to run inventory, keep people happy, have a high pain tolerance and horsemanship skill. We have to know how to do proper scheduling and time management. We have to handle emergency calls, stay current on techniques, communicate with veterinarians and possess a professional demeanor. Besides those in the medical community, we are one of the few professionals that work with live tissue.
Our earning potential does not increase with each passing year. We have a window of peak earning power that doesn't open until we have proven ourselves to the horse owning public and begins to close once our bodies start to slow from age and the ac***ulation of wear that occurs from the physical aspects of the job. In other words, we make much less during the 35th year than the 10th.

Right now in 2005, the average fee charged across the nation for full time farriers is right at $82.00 per head for 4 cold shoes.
Most farriers charge an additional $42.00 an hour if they use their forge.
So that makes the AVERAGE fee per four shoes that are hot set at $124.00 PLUS a farm call charge averaging $24.00.

Why isn't this the "average" fee that seems to be reflected in the industry from your standpoint?
Good question.

1) A simple reason is that the perceived "average" fee charged is being charged by transient, part-time, uneducated, poorly trained people or those who are not making careers out of this trade. The vast majority of horse shoers in practice today have been in business for less than 5 years and will not be in business within 5 years. These iron hangers do not possess the skills to build a set of shoes from scratch, rarely use a forge or do not carry one. They do not attend clinics, seminars or pursue a continuing education in any manner. In other words, they may have been shoeing for 10 years, but they still only possess the skills of a first year farrier, plus any mistakes they learned on their own (and on your horses) in that time. They do not better themselves by learning from others. Instead, they isolate themselves and count on their particular line of “magic” to sway their clients. They will not put their skills up for examination and approval by their peers, so the most treasured trade in horsemanry is being standardized by individuals that have no intention of improving either their skills, services, or business practices. The public then perceives the “norm” as something that passes without improvement. Hence the reputation farriers have of being unreliable with limited skills, intelligence, knowledge and basic hacks.
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 01 Nov 2005 10:53 #12

  • shoesofiron
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Part Two:

2) Many horse owners do not have the education nor background to realize the importance of proper shoeing. They are not educated in the fact that the poor shoeing practices that are rampant today can take months or years to manifest themselves and that the horse population as a whole is suffering for it over the long haul. Let me repeat that part because it is the single most significant item in this letter. Poor shoeing practices can take months or years to manifest themselves. They are not readily perceived by nonprofessionals. Many owners also think that so long as the shoes stay on between farrier visits, he must be good, when in fact, most owners couldn’t recognize a good quality job if their life depended on it. They have no qualifications or guidelines to help guide them, only their prior experience with the usual poorly trained individuals. The proliferation of small, inadequate farrier schools has had a lot to do with farrier skill perception because they are only concerned with recruiting students, not teaching complete skills and many so-called farriers in practice today never even took the time to even go to school, let alone work for any length of time under a qualified professional. In England for instance, one cannot simply hang out his or her shingle and begin calling themselves a farrier. Four years of intensive equine college is a prerequisite, along with four years of certifiable apprenticeship before anyone can begin a farrier service independently. These folks are held in very high regard by not only the horse owning public but people in all walks of life and earn incomes comparable to engineers, attorneys and college professors. In the United States, "going to shoeing school" means anywhere from 2 to 16 weeks with no requirement for apprenticeship. Again, this qualification alone is more than enough to satisfy most owners, no matter what school they attended. How poorly educated most horse owners are! It is truly rare to find and work for a trainer or owner that understands and appreciates the time and dedication a well-rounded farrier brings to them. The peace of mind alone, knowing your horses received a thorough exam and appropriate service is well worth the average national fee.

Those of us who have dedicated ourselves to being at the top of our game will settle for nothing less than the kind of lives that you enjoy. We deserve it just as you do and there isn't a person I know of that earns their money through the types of trials that farriers endure daily. Anyone who has ever tried to pull a shoe or trim his or her own horse can attest to the physical strain involved, let alone the other business dealings with people, inventory and skills that take years to develop.

So what does it take for a farrier to be able to bring home the kind of bacon that your average factory worker enjoys?
The average COST of doing business per horse today is in the neighborhood of $50.00 per horse. This does NOT INCLUDE A SALARY for the farrier, only the cost of keeping a rig on the road and supplied. It does NOT INCLUDE paid vacations, sick days, bad weather days, canceled appointments, stock options in the company, or anything other than a modest amount to be put back for retirement.
If you take away the fifty dollars from the amount you pay for each horse to be shod, how much is actually left over for the farrier?
How about after taxes? Everything that is included in the fifty dollars is tax deductible but not the earnings. Self employed people are taxed more heavily than people whose taxes are withheld by an employer.
What hourly rate would you place on a person who takes the risks of a farrier?
What kind of salary does a person deserve who has the qualifications listed above?
Are you paying the average $124.00 per horse?
Have you been receiving "average" service or have you been receiving better than average service?
Good service?
Excellent service?
The farrier industry is not about selling shoes. It is a service industry.

If you find yourself thinking, "I don't know ANYONE who pays that much for their horses to be shod", you're not alone. But you are misinformed and your perception is limited. Many people do pay that for their shoeing and more.
The reason so many are charging less is that they do not have good business sense, lack the experience to run a reliable service over the long haul and are desperate for work to stay financially solvent. They are hoping they can make up in volume what they cannot acquire for each individual. Hence the high turnover rate in farriers and their business failures. Most know their work will not stand up under the scrutiny of knowledgeable people so they avoid the responsibility of being reliable and skillful by being cheap.
I respectfully submit that if you feel this fee is exorbitant, then you are not properly budgeting for your hobby. Your discretionary money is being poorly invested and you are in fact poaching the horse industry. By continuing to use farriers whose education and skills are lacking and their long term business plans nonexistent, you are allowing one of the most treasured skills in the equine industry to be deteriorated to the point of extinction. The others in this category are afraid to charge what they are worth because they feel their clients cannot afford to pay them a decent wage and are enamored by the perceived “mystique” of being a farrier. So I would also submit that if you feel you cannot afford to pay a farrier a decent wage that you really can't afford horses to begin with because keeping a horse's feet maintained is a basic staple of horsemanship. It's like water. They need it.
I will go so far as to say that there are a great many people who ought not have horses for that reason alone.
By refusing to pay a farrier a decent wage and using newly schooled farriers, you are sending a message that farriers do not deserve the kind of living that you yourself enjoy. You are saying that part time farriers are just as good as ones who commit their lives to the horse industry. You are saying that the amount of money you budget for hay is worth more than your horse's feet. You are saying that the average factory worker deserves a better living than your farrier.
Yes, I have strong feelings about this subject and I will be perfectly blunt about it. I have spent a good portion of my livelihood trying to stay above water because of having to compete with incompetent and cheap kids, laid-off factory workers, and other “in-and-outers” who come and go every year, leaving a mess in their wake. I also have to deal with these so-called “experts” who travel hundreds of miles and charge exorbitant fees. Would to God that I could get the $250-$500 to shoe at some of these local farms, but again, owner perception dictates the higher the fee, the more prolific the skill. Try and set your fees under these cir***stances – namely, if I charge the “going rate”, I go broke. If I charge what is truly fair, it’s too high but not high enough to get me in some good local barns. The horses deserve better treatment than what they get with some of the shoers out there charging bargain basement prices OR extorting money simply on a misinformed point of view.
My main objective here is to try and educate local owners on the value of Farriery. Many of my friends in states and areas where Amish do not live do not have to deal with this issue. Their fees are, on the average, much higher than here in Indiana. I feel the Amish have a lot to do with this difference and educational level of owners. Here, owners can load up their trailers and get four horses shod for under $130. Many farriers in other states command at least that for one horse, even if they stay all day at one barn. They get it because it takes that much to maintain a decent profit margin, not because they have overly-inflated egos.
My good friend Bill always tells me that "perception is reality". And I feel that your perception is unrealistic. My goal is to change the perception horse owners have about farriers.
While I have to respect your decision and am sympathetic to your financial situation, it is my hope that you will re-examine the value a decent, competent and conscientious farrier brings to you.
It has been my experience that owners who look for the cheaper farriers and vets end up with more problems in the long run.
Also, I am always encouraging my fellow farriers to raise their rate to get the most out of their skills as they can. They deserve every penny.
Good luck in the future.
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 01 Nov 2005 14:13 #13

  • solidrockshoer
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Love it Scott! I'm afraid it's too long I don't think some of my clients could understand all that in one reading! WELL said tho! Thanks, Gary
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 01 Nov 2005 23:00 #14

Scott,
You are a hero, with big shiney brass ... BTW, what do0 you really think! :D
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:HAve you lost a clients when raising your fees? 02 Nov 2005 16:59 #15

  • Wheaties
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As a horse owner. I have only 2. One in eggbars and one barefoot. Costs me 150 every 6 weeks for my farrier. I wouldnt trade him for another farrier no matter what. For 2 years he hasnt ever missed an appointment. He has brought my navicular horse sound with corrective shoeing, Always on time, Clean, explains things to me, comes at night if a shoe is lost during the day. hehas even been here at 4am before he started his day's schedule to put a new eggbar on (my horse is lame without even for a short period of time.)

I hear some horse owner's woes on their farriers. I wonder if some of those woes are brought on not by the farriers but by thwe horse owners themselves.

Im brand new to this site so I hope my butt kissin attitude towards my farrier earns me some points. :) Just kiddin. Wanted to give my view on this topic. I know a great thing when I have it and sure wish others could see too and not dump a good thing for a $5-$10 every 6 weeks savings.
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