make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Thursday October 6, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Fees

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 13:21 #31

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
Jason Maki wrote:
Honestly?
It is not possible to attend to the nuances and subtleties if proper shoe fit cold. Seat a shoe, forge a real heel. sweeten the medial branch, get the radius correct, not have pinches and kinks exerting pressure aginst the foot, stretch the lateral branch for proper coverage: all of these things are relevant to a proper, complete job. I could not do a satisfactory job without a forge. Would you tim a horse with a dull knife and a pair of pulloffs? Obviously not, those are not appropriate tools. Would I shoe a horse without a forge? See the above statement for the answer! :eek: :D
Jason

Hi Jason,

I'm not sure what you mean when you say things like "forge a real heel" but I've gone to both extremes lately more than I used to. I use the forge more. In some cases it really makes the job easier and better. At the same time, depending on the shoe and the foot, you may catch me just giving the shoe a few bumps on a stall jack without even going near the anvil and maybe without setting the foot down. Some shoes move easier cold than others and it can be done without kinks or an incorrect radius, if I'm understanding your meaning. I even know guys who do things like seating a shoe (when needed) with an angle grinder.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 13:59 #32

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Mike Ferrara wrote:
I even know guys who do things like seating a shoe (when needed) with an angle grinder.

Waving my hand in the air, I plead ,"guilty" (at times).
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 14:16 #33

Mike,
Yoyu might be able to get close with a keg shoe, but it will not be exact. Every foot has a personality, a quirk, that needs to be taken into account when fitting. Almost all feet are longer, or actually bolder to the lateral aspect, and steeper, thus shorter to the medial side. ( unless you have an inside out foot, which is then inverted. Severely toed in horse's are often insideout.) In order to cover the foot, from buttress to buttress and have a little expansion, the lateral branch need lengthened, and the heel needs to be widened, and a littlle bit of check to the outside of the heel, with a longer gradual check on the inside. There is a real term for each of these, but it escapes me at the moment. This setup, or manipulation of metal allows for the buttress to sit in the middle of the stock, for cleanout, and to have a safed expansion. The medial aspect aspect is narrower, and requires more of a penciled heel to fit correctly. The only keg shoe's on the market that are set up this way are the Crothers concave, and the Pegasaus concave, both of which are English. Even then, how often does a foot need a shoe that is EXACTLY 13 1/4 inches? It always needs stretched a little, or a stonger check, or a little more mass. How do you blow out a toe cold? You cannot. The devotion to detail, the accepting and magnifying the nuances of shoe fit is what seperates an acceptable job from a good job. I demand every advantage to acheive the best job I can do. I have never seen a cold job that took into account all of the defining details of an excellent shoe job. I have seen many that did no harm, but lacked the class of a well shod, forge created aestheticly pleasing, detail oriented, functional effort. I demand the best from myself, and expect it from everyone else. If someone wants to get by, or do mediocre work, they should look to the thread on the BWFA! :D :eek:
Do I always get it right? Hell no! Do I always no where it went wrong? Not at the time. Do I always use every tool at my diposal to acheive the picture in my head? Invariably. Fundamental to the accomplishment (someday) of my goal, is a forge.
Besides, all that clanging and clinking I hear when guys cold bang hurts my ears! I'd much rather hear a solid thump!
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 14:51 #34

I've got no problem with "grindersmithing" my shoes, but not until after I've shaped, sized, stretched, or "beefed up" my branches, hot fit the shoe, and made sure everything was the way I wanted it. Many times I will seat out the shoe, or even improve my heel checks with a grinder, but the shoe is always shaped hot, and fit hot, before the grinder comes out.
Dave
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 15:22 #35

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Jason Maki wrote:
How do you blow out a toe cold?

With a steel hankie and metalcillin? Chicken soup? Very carefully so as not to inflame the tissue? With deep breaths and sharp exhalations? Don't let it catch cold in the first place?

Sorry Jason, I just could not stop myself. Please administer as many lashings with a wet noodle as you feel necessary or appropriate.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 18:45 #36

Does a toe with a cold produce more jam? How many digits above normal is the temperature of a toe with a cold?

Rick,
When you hammer up your shoes, I am sure you make atleast one pass on the foot side to releive sole pressure, even if you do not think about it. When you grind weight out of a Ahab the Arabs' toe weight, the logical place to take it is from midline to midline, seating out the shoe, but it was probobly already seated...
Lashes, you should get extra points for catching the toe cold! Do you need some"punacillin'? Gotta take care of those feet! :D

Dave,
I have a 1/2 horsepower circular rasp in my truck that is ******** with every shoe I work. Fine tune it, no extra effort.
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 20:38 #37

  • Noreaster
  • Noreaster's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 154
  • Karma: 0
edited*****
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 20:52 #38

I personaly seat every shoe on every foot. Its simply a fundamental part of building a shoe, or taking a blank with holes in it and making it a horseshoe. When you passed your shoe display, did the examiner not run a straight edge along the foot surface of your shoes to check for sole pressure releif? They did on mine! ;) Rick would know for certain, but I was under the assumption that any shoe that was not properly seated would not pass the certified shoe board display. I am certain that your Journeyman practical shoes wwill not be permitted to be nailed if they are not seated well.
Seating the shoe also adds fluidity to your shoe, gets rid of any lumpy bumpy hammer marks and widdens your toe and gets rid of, or hides the blow out at the start of the fullering... lotsa benefits!
Jason
ps I even extra seat a shoe with a pad, giving a little extar length and widht, and protecting the cir***flex artery a little more.
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 21:26 #39

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
Jason Maki wrote:
Mike,
Yoyu might be able to get close with a keg shoe, but it will not be exact. Every foot has a personality, a quirk, that needs to be taken into account when fitting. Almost all feet are longer, or actually bolder to the lateral aspect, and steeper, thus shorter to the medial side. ( unless you have an inside out foot, which is then inverted. Severely toed in horse's are often insideout.) In order to cover the foot, from buttress to buttress and have a little expansion, the lateral branch need lengthened, and the heel needs to be widened, and a littlle bit of check to the outside of the heel, with a longer gradual check on the inside. There is a real term for each of these, but it escapes me at the moment. This setup, or manipulation of metal allows for the buttress to sit in the middle of the stock, for cleanout, and to have a safed expansion. The medial aspect aspect is narrower, and requires more of a penciled heel to fit correctly. The only keg shoe's on the market that are set up this way are the Crothers concave, and the Pegasaus concave, both of which are English. Even then, how often does a foot need a shoe that is EXACTLY 13 1/4 inches? It always needs stretched a little, or a stonger check, or a little more mass. How do you blow out a toe cold? You cannot. The devotion to detail, the accepting and magnifying the nuances of shoe fit is what seperates an acceptable job from a good job. I demand every advantage to acheive the best job I can do. I have never seen a cold job that took into account all of the defining details of an excellent shoe job. I have seen many that did no harm, but lacked the class of a well shod, forge created aestheticly pleasing, detail oriented, functional effort. I demand the best from myself, and expect it from everyone else. If someone wants to get by, or do mediocre work, they should look to the thread on the BWFA! :D :eek:
Do I always get it right? Hell no! Do I always no where it went wrong? Not at the time. Do I always use every tool at my diposal to acheive the picture in my head? Invariably. Fundamental to the accomplishment (someday) of my goal, is a forge.
Besides, all that clanging and clinking I hear when guys cold bang hurts my ears! I'd much rather hear a solid thump!
Jason

A really enjoyable post. It sounds like you really enjoy what you do and I'd love to watch you work sometime (for real, I'm not being a smart guy).
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 22:11 #40

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Jason Maki] When you passed your shoe display, did the examiner not run a straight edge along the foot surface of your shoes to check for sole pressure releif? They did on mine! wrote:
ps I even extra seat a shoe with a pad, giving a little extar length and widht, and protecting the cir***flex artery a little more.[/QUOTE]

When I'm shoeing the Arabians or Morgans that have weight restrictions on the shoes or shoeing packages, I like to seat out those toes quite a bit. That way, extra dirt packs in there and can really add some weight. And, its perfectly legal ;)

If I have a really short footed horse that is already borderline ouchy, I find that just seating out the shoe often isn't enouge so I have to add a rim pad too. And, I use my power rasp to deep seat it before it goes on the foot.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 22:16 #41

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
RGXnortheast wrote:
Is it common practice to use the hammer to seat out a shoe on every job? ( cause it's new by me ).

I seat every shoe(+/- 5%) either with my hammer or my power rasp.

And, at reset, I use the power rasp to knock off all the scale and crud that ac***ulates. Otherwise, the build up on the seated out part, negates the effect of the modification.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 22:26 #42

Gary_Miller wrote:
It does not matter if the shoe was shaped cold or hot, or if it was fit hot or not.

If the job is the same quality why not get the same price?

Gary

Sorry mate, IMHO cold is just NEVER the same perfect fit as hot, not to mention the benefits of correctly done hot fitting to horn quality. Had to do both, personal experience.
Cheers
Balazs
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God" Rom.8 (28)
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 23:42 #43

  • calshoer
  • calshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 7253
  • Karma: 0
Rick,
When you hammer up your shoes, I am sure you make atleast one pass on the foot side to releive sole pressure, even if you do not think about it.
I buy those fad NB shoes that are already well seated out without losing weight.
When you passed your shoe display, did the examiner not run a straight edge along the foot surface of your shoes to check for sole pressure releif? They did on mine! Rick would know for certain, but I was under the assumption that any shoe that was not properly seated would not pass the certified shoe board display. I am certain that your Journeyman practical shoes wwill not be permitted to be nailed if they are not seated well.
No cold shoe of mine (99 percent of them I do cold) will have ANY little bubble or high spot on the foot surface nor will it lack lacks seating out. I can seat one out cold just as easy as hot. There are a lot of keg shoes on the marlet now that are already seated out anyway. I run the rasp flat over the foot surface before the are nailed on to identify any little bumps and take them down,and to insure the very ends of the heels are truly FLAT. A belt sander or grinder wiould do the exact same thing in a jiffy .
1. the foot changes after it was trimmed and often the sole flattens a bit and the candidate doesn't take that into account
ONLY if the sole callous was invaded in the trim. If you leave it so the very outer edge of the sole callous in the toe corners are level with the wall,sharing the load, the foot (sole) does not flatten. And because those outer edges of the callous are dead horn located outside the edge of the bone and outside the artery, there is no concern about sole pressure even if the shoe is NOT seated out because the rest of the sole that IS under P3 (where live structures are) is concave naturally and will have clearance under flat non seated shoe. Unless you trimmed it too much. Then it flattens down onto the shoe. (And if it is not a foundered foot of course.)
2. after the foot has been hot fit a couple of times, and then the burn marks trimmed away, the foot again settles and settles right into that prior sole relief. Which was one of the reasons why I used a round file to really enhance my hammered in sole relief, especially on the inside edge of the foot surface of the shoe when I took the exams. Its either that or you really have to deep seat and feather down that inside edge.
It settles BECAUSE the burn marks get pared away, further weakening the sole callous. If you burn in a perfectly flat shoe (and it should be) then leave the d a m n marks there, with that nice and hard CRUST, you could nail the suikker right on and not cause sole pressure because the shoe and foot would match perfectly.
This setup, or manipulation of metal allows for the buttress to sit in the middle of the stock, for cleanout, and to have a safed expansion.

I don't want them to clean out. I USE the inside edge of the shoe hanging over the commisures to help pack and collect dirt in there (not manure or urine) , which helps support and stimulate the whole back of the foot and get a bigger frog, and support the cofin joint better. Dirt is mother natures support material. The ratty edges that develop on the rear of any frog hold dirt in, even in a short bare foot. If it wasnt supposed to do that then nature screwed up. Since I began advising my clients to go ride in the trail or arena and leave that clean dirt packed in there until the nxt shoeing, they do not get thrush. The only horse I do that has thrush lives in a deep bedded shavings stall every night and gets his feet cleaned twice a day despite my protestations.

Even though I DO own a forge an occasionally hot seat a shoe (usually because of the condition of some waterloged or otherwise weak foot) , there is NO reason anyway both heel butresses can not be set in the middle of the stock with a keg shoe. That is what my hammer and strong right arm are for. As well there is no reason every heel cannot be safed cold, I do that everyday too. It takes only a few seconds with a rasp in the vise. Anyone who thinks you have to work the shoe hot to properly shape, fit, and seat or safe it is a wimp. REAL girls do it cold. :D Patty
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 23:51 #44

Damn. I guess I'm not a real girl, I prefer my steel hot! :rolleyes:
Jason
Ps- I get a tighter fit that way... ;) ! :D
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Fees 13 Aug 2005 23:52 #45

  • calshoer
  • calshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 7253
  • Karma: 0
Rick,
When you hammer up your shoes, I am sure you make atleast one pass on the foot side to releive sole pressure, even if you do not think about it.
I buy those fad NB shoes that are already well seated out without losing weight.
When you passed your shoe display, did the examiner not run a straight edge along the foot surface of your shoes to check for sole pressure releif? They did on mine! Rick would know for certain, but I was under the assumption that any shoe that was not properly seated would not pass the certified shoe board display. I am certain that your Journeyman practical shoes wwill not be permitted to be nailed if they are not seated well.
No cold shoe of mine (99 percent of them I do cold) will have ANY little bubble or high spot on the foot surface nor will it lack lacks seating out. There are a lot of keg shoes on the marlet now that are already seated out. I run the rasp flat over the foot surface bevfore the are nailed on to identify any little bumps and take them down. A belt sander or grinder wiould do the exact same thing in a jiffy .
1. the foot changes after it was trimmed and often the sole flattens a bit and the candidate doesn't take that into account
ONLY if the sole callous was invaded in the trim. If you leave it so the very outer edge of the sole callous in the toe corners are level with the wall,sharing the load, the foot (sole) does not flatten. And because those outer edges of the callous are dead horn located outside the edge of the bone and outside the artery, there is no concern about sole pressure even if the shoe is NOT seated out because the rest of the sole that IS under P3 (where live structures are) is concave naturally and will have clearance under flat non seated shoe. Unless you trimmed it too much. Then it flattens down onto the shoe. (And if it is not a foundered foot of course.)
2. after the foot has been hot fit a couple of times, and then the burn marks trimmed away, the foot again settles and settles right into that prior sole relief. Which was one of the reasons why I used a round file to really enhance my hammered in sole relief, especially on the inside edge of the foot surface of the shoe when I took the exams. Its either that or you really have to deep seat and feather down that inside edge.
It settles BECAUSE the burn marks get pared away, further weakening the sole callous. If you burn in a perfectly flat shoe (and it should be) then leave the d a m n marks there, with that nice and hard CRUST, you could nail the suikker right on and not cause sole pressure because the shoe and foot would match perfectly.
This setup, or manipulation of metal allows for the buttress to sit in the middle of the stock, for cleanout, and to have a safed expansion.

I don't want them to clean out. I USE the inside edge of the shoe hanging over the commisures to help pack and collect dirt in there (not manure or urine) , which helps support and stimulate the whole back of the foot and get a bigger frog, and support the cofin joint better. Dirt is mother natures support material. The ratty edges that develop on the rear of any frog hold dirt in, even in a short bare foot. If it wasnt supposed to do that then nature screwed up. Since I began advising my clients to go ride in the trail or arena and leave that clean dirt packed in there until the nxt shoeing, they do not get thrush. The only horse I do that has thrush lives in a deep bedded shavings stall every night and gets his feet cleaned twice a day despite my protestations.

Even though I DO own a forge an occasionally hot seat a shoe (usually because of the condition of some waterloged or otherwise weak foot) , there is NO reason anyway both heel butresses can not be set in the middle of the stock with a keg shoe. That is what my hammer and strong right arm are for. As well there is no reason every heel cannot be safed cold, I do that everyday too. It takes only a few seconds with a rasp in the vise. Anyone who thinks you have to work the shoe hot to properly shape, fit, and seat or safe it is a wimp. REAL girls do it cold. :D Patty
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • AugustineAlbor birthday is today
  • Elentary birthday is today
  • JohnathanTag birthday is today
  • carlsylvia birthday is in 1 day
  • gorostiza birthday is in 1 day
  • Heather06 birthday is in 1 day
  • terrence003 birthday is in 1 day
  • LEC Trail Rider birthday is in 2 days
  • SpiritHorse birthday is in 2 days
  • tuffstuff birthday is in 2 days
  • oneredhorse birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.248 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.