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TOPIC: Pony Founder (With Radiographs)

Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 04 Jul 2012 13:50 #1

Hey Everybody,

Seeking some advice on a foundered pony I have taken on. Back.. oh January some clients of mine purchased a 12.2hh pony mare. Not bad feet by any means, did the normal trim thing, was a fairly routine call. Was not called back until a few weeks ago, where I found a disaster of a horse.


Apparently these people keep her in a 8x8 stall, all day long, eating grain and free choice hay. Naturally you can imagine that she was in rough shape. I found her completely rocked back over her heels.. with her soles in the air and an obvious case of founder. Hind hooves were white, so you could see the amount of blood drawn into the front of the foot. I wanted x-rays taken, so I shod her in a small reverse shoe to stand her up at least, and left it at that.

I have attached pictures of the x-ray and will shortly upload the before and after shoeing pics, as I have to get them off of my blackberry.

I am looking for direction as to how to go about correcting this.. even just picking up the hoof you can see blood in all of the tissue. The frog was a rotten mass that puffed out of the hoof like a mushroom, cramped between the two heels.

The other thing is that obviously the angle of the toe has grown off.. but how does one go about actually determining the degree of rotation? I have had mild founder cases before.. but am newer in the business and the vet I work with was useless on answering that.

Thank you!!


Founder1.jpg


Founder4.jpg


Founder2.jpg


Founder3.jpg
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 04 Jul 2012 14:06 #2

Here are the rest of the pictures..
IMG-20120530-00403.jpg


IMG-20120530-00406.jpg


IMG-20120530-00407.jpg
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 04 Jul 2012 16:45 #3

  • Seth Parker
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IMO now that you have xrays you need to pull those shoes and start chipping away at the massive overgrowth of hoof before you put shoes on. This looks like a founder/neglect case.

Assuming you've set realistic cost expectations with the owner I would contact a much more experienced farrier in your area and pass the case off to him under the condition that you can observe and learn.
Seth Parker, South Florida
www.facebook.com/SethParkerFarrier
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 04 Jul 2012 16:52 #4

  • Rick Burten
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're in over your head and you need to reach out and find a farrier with a lot of hands on experience in dealing with founder. The way the pony is trimmed and shod in the rads is doing more harm than good. Those rads offer a pretty good idea of what you need to trim, how you need to trim and why it needs done.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 04 Jul 2012 18:40 #5

  • Gabino
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Why the vet takes these pics? It's money in the rubish.The first thing could be to resect a ton of stuff in each hoof.Then,the pics can bring you the information. Now,you need trim the horse and take new pics.
Gabino Fernández Baquero

www.farriergabino.com
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 04 Jul 2012 19:03 #6

Thanks - Yes, I do realize this is a big bite to chew.. however in regards to the shoeing you should also know that in just pulling this pony out of the stall.. she reared up and struck the owner in the shoulder, resulting in an unconscious client, and a pony that still needed attention.

I quite literally slapped the shoes on and proceeded to the hospital. I have enlisted the help of a few different farriers but unfortunately they have very little interest in working on this pony.. and have only given me a general direction as far as treatment goes.

I am asking for personal experience.. as I understand the mechanics of the hoof quite thoroughly, but it is my own apprehension that is making me seek further advice before I go out on my own to actually do it.

There are farriers on here with a much more experience dealing with cases like this, and I am purely interested in hearing "if this was my horse, I would.." type answers.

I also enlisted the help of a vet in hopes that he would work on the hooves himself (as he proclaims to be a "Founder miracle worker") but much to my displeasure.. he did not.


This is not my choice method of shoeing that pony.. like I said, it was a bandaid fix.

Thank you - and please excuse me if I sound snarky.. that is not my intention.
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 04 Jul 2012 20:26 #7

  • Katy Watts
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DylanJames wrote:
Apparently these people keep her in a 8x8 stall, all day long, eating grain and free choice hay........

I am looking for direction as to how to go about correcting this.. .

The more appropriate question is 'what are the owners going to do'? Unless they get on a fast, steep learning curve about how to keep ponies, anything you do will be just spinning your wheels and prolonging this pony's miserable life.

Please send them to my website. The first 2 CD's are a condensed version if they are not into reading a lot.
Are you feeding your horse like a cow?
www.safergrass.org
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 04 Jul 2012 21:00 #8

  • Red Amor
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like Gabino said there is a heap of foot the should be swept to corner
I also think If your not getting the help you need from the owners you need to mention that if someone saw this and reported it to the rspca or your equivalent they could be in quite some strife
If that doesn't work as sometimes it doesn't walk away
also IF you need to get someone in thats willing to share their experience with you on this one
good on you
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 04 Jul 2012 21:01 #9

Where are you from maby we can refer you to a more experienced Farrier to help you

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Zach Shoop
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 05 Jul 2012 03:42 #10

  • Seth Parker
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DylanJames wrote:
you should also know that in just pulling this pony out of the stall.. she reared up and struck the owner in the shoulder, resulting in an unconscious client, and a pony that still needed attention.

While its nice to know that karma is alive and well, this would have been my cue to make a graceful yet hasty exit. The fact that you were still game to work on this pony after it knocked someone out is slightly alarming. Though the situation is pretty dire it definetly could have waited for a vet to come and properly sedate the pony.
DylanJames wrote:
I have enlisted the help of a few different farriers but unfortunately they have very little interest in working on this pony

Thats why I was asking if you had the "money talk" with the owner yet. The fact is most tenured guys have learned to avoid these neglect cases. The owners are almost never willing to pay what this sort of job should be priced at. The only way you might be able to get an experienced farrier near this pony is with a nice sized wad of large denomination US currency. Personally I would also take DATE STAMPED pictures and have the owners sign some sort of document acknowledging the pony's sorry state before I even picked up a hoof. The fact is if things do go south these types of owners are usually the first to turn on the farrier to avoid moral and possibly legal implication. Don't believe me: read the COTH forum sometime.
Seth Parker, South Florida
www.facebook.com/SethParkerFarrier
Last Edit: 05 Jul 2012 03:51 by Seth Parker.
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 05 Jul 2012 04:20 #11

  • Jack Evers
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In my younger days, I loved working on a founder - I thought I could help. Now I feel most founders are due to bad management and if management hasn't changed, there's very little hope.
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 05 Jul 2012 12:27 #12

  • tbloomer
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Jack Evers wrote:
In my younger days, I loved working on a founder - I thought I could help. Now I feel most founders are due to bad management and if management hasn't changed, there's very little hope.
I share your opinion, Jack. Nearly every case of founder I've seen or heard about resulted from stoopid husbandry and was 100% preventable.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 05 Jul 2012 15:37 #13

Thanks Guys.
Fortunately, these people are completely willing to pay for the pony. This happened entirely due to lack of knowledge, and they have the best intentions... just not the sense to back it up.

I have found an AFA CJF in my area.. gave him a ring, hopefully can learn a thing or two!
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 05 Jul 2012 15:42 #14

And Seth, part of it was his fault. Dont stand directly infront of an unpredictable horse. I had enough handling experience, paired with a bit of a ****** sense of determination (and the price of running the truck back there to go at it again lingering in my head) to just buckle down and finish it. Im not in this game for the dough, I am a pre-vet student and I am trying to learn as much as I can to assist in my career. All the best!
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Re: Pony Founder (With Radiographs) 05 Jul 2012 16:02 #15

  • Gabino
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Don't try the treatment without the help of veterinary.You need his collaboration for sedation and rads.Besides,he will the person in charge if the horse do not make better.
Gabino Fernández Baquero

www.farriergabino.com
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