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TOPIC: Groove in coronary band

RE:Groove in coronary band 12 Oct 2011 18:12 #16

  • Jay Mickle
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Bruce,
I like that you are thinking outside the box.
Jay Mickle
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RE:Groove in coronary band 12 Oct 2011 20:05 #17

  • vthorseshoe
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Micheal;
Example; If one leg, (hypothetically) is shorter than the other, then the floating of the shoulder will eliminate the imbalance and everything in the working parts of the body will become balanced.....? Naw ... the whole body will make adjustments to compensate the imbalance.

What about the ligaments and muscles that have to make adjustment for the lack of bone/joint connection ? and these muscles and ligaments connect to the rest of the body causing stress and soreness.

When you put one foot on a board for an xray to be taken ...are you going to get a good clear balanced picture ( the horse is leaning right ? and it will show up in the articulating joints and other area's of connection)
or do you need to put both feet on a board of equal thickness so the picture will come out balanced and proper.

Now if this animal is leaning to alleviate pain, but in doing so has actually caused a secondary problem ,can he be straightened up and then shod to help the origional problem ?
Look at the articulating area in the x-ray and you can see that this animal has been compensating for a long time. The way the joints are wearing to me indicates this.

This horse is a dressage horse and its muscles are asked to do a lot of things and stress is ever present.
For all we think that a dressage horse would be the perfect athelete, it is my understanding that because of the required movements the body is taught like a wire and the muscles and ligaments are like power houses ready to explode with energy.
Can anyone or animal handle stress or pain for ever without eventual some part of the body breaking down ?

Just some abstract thinking, on my part. I may be wrong but perhaps it will get brains to think away from the normal shoeing solutions and consider other possible causes.

Consider something else that may shift the foot and weight off the medial side, ....Lateral extension on the good foot ?
Adjusting one hoof may help the other or both hooves may need adjusting


Thanks Jay..... I sometimes think we forget about the rest of the body and focus to much on just the hoof.

An old saying is that the horses hoof is very forgiving.. in this case i have a feeling it started out being forgiving and became weak and went to far on the forgiving side.
my 2 cents worth ;)

I don't believe the sinking of the medial side is the primary problem, but was the result of
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Groove in coronary band 12 Oct 2011 22:51 #18

  • Jaye Perry
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Glad the thinking on this forum hasn't subsided to just shoe makin'.......:cool:
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RE:Groove in coronary band 16 Oct 2011 13:57 #19

  • Alicia Thompson
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Thanks for the intellectually stimulating thread.

My instincts would be to build up or wedge the medial side, cast to stabilize the crack and help out the remaining lamina, then shoe if necessary.

Jaye I am so glad you are back.
Forget thinking outside the box, instead realize there is no box.
- Alicia Thompson


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RE:Groove in coronary band 16 Oct 2011 16:57 #20

Alicia Thompson wrote:
Thanks for the intellectually stimulating thread.

My instincts would be to build up or wedge the medial side, cast to stabilize the crack and help out the remaining lamina, then shoe if necessary.

Jaye I am so glad you are back.

think again... lamellar bond in medial side is already failed. wedging increases pressure. I think sole/frog support to stabilize the situation would be the first step. after that you can start to concentrate on m/l- balance.
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RE:Groove in coronary band 16 Oct 2011 19:38 #21

  • Alicia Thompson
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Juhani Takanen wrote:
think again... lamellar bond in medial side is already failed. wedging increases pressure. I think sole/frog support to stabilize the situation would be the first step. after that you can start to concentrate on m/l- balance.

That is an interesting thought. I wonder though when I wedge heels it doesn't increase pressure on the heels it tips the load toward the toe and I end up with less growth at the toe and more at the heel.

My thinking was that wedging to raise medially would shift load laterally balancing pressure and growth. Admittedly I have not dealt with a medial sinker so this is just speculation.
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RE:Groove in coronary band 16 Oct 2011 20:13 #22

Alicia Thompson wrote:
That is an interesting thought. I wonder though when I wedge heels it doesn't increase pressure on the heels it tips the load toward the toe and I end up with less growth at the toe and more at the heel.

My thinking was that wedging to raise medially would shift load laterally balancing pressure and growth. Admittedly I have not dealt with a medial sinker so this is just speculation.

that´s what you got to do eventually. but first you wanna stabilize the situation. and when you re-align/ derotate the HPA you want to support the sole/frog and not put pressure on the medial wall. load lateral wall and sole and leave the medial wall be.

with normal foot with ie. weak heels, you want to load the toe, but with laminitic foot the lamellar bond is compromised and you can´t let the pIII "hang" in the hoof capsule, so you are after 0-palmar angle. use wedges to adjust to make horse comfortable. with unilateral sinking, you have to visualize the hoof in different way. think that the sinked side is toe. leave it alone. adjust the other side and use cast, im, shoe or what ever you want to releave pressure on damaged side.
hope this made sense:)
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RE:Groove in coronary band 16 Oct 2011 20:36 #23

  • Alicia Thompson
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Juhani Takanen wrote:
that´s what you got to do eventually. but first you wanna stabilize the situation. and when you re-align/ derotate the HPA you want to support the sole/frog and not put pressure on the medial wall. load lateral wall and sole and leave the medial wall be.

with normal foot with ie. weak heels, you want to load the toe, but with laminitic foot the lamellar bond is compromised and you can´t let the pIII "hang" in the hoof capsule, so you are after 0-palmar angle. use wedges to adjust to make horse comfortable. with unilateral sinking, you have to visualize the hoof in different way. think that the sinked side is toe. leave it alone. adjust the other side and use cast, im, shoe or what ever you want to releave pressure on damaged side.
hope this made sense:)

Thank you it actually made a lot of sense.
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RE:Groove in coronary band 16 Oct 2011 22:11 #24

your thinking was right according to some people using reverse wedges for laminitis. I dont use them but they've been succesful, so you might also be right:cool:
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RE:Groove in coronary band 16 Oct 2011 23:10 #25

  • Jay Mickle
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As of now an MRI is scheduled for Tuesday to help establish the extent of damage that has been sustained. After that a plan for shoeing that will both address the medial sinking forces and quarter crack will need to be implemented. Perhaps not both at once, but, to maintain this horse as a dressage schoolmaster both problems will have to be dealt with in the near term. I don't know that there are any right answers so differing points of view are encouraged. Thanks for the input so far.
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RE:Groove in coronary band 17 Oct 2011 01:46 #26

Jay Mickle wrote:
As of now an MRI is scheduled for Tuesday to help establish the extent of damage that has been sustained. After that a plan for shoeing that will both address the medial sinking forces and quarter crack will need to be implemented. Perhaps not both at once, but, to maintain this horse as a dressage schoolmaster both problems will have to be dealt with in the near term. I don't know that there are any right answers so differing points of view are encouraged. Thanks for the input so far.
Why not forget the dressage schoolmaster statis for awhile and let the horse heal? Do what you need to do but let the horse have a break.
Charlie Piccione Sr.
Washington, NJ.
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RE:Groove in coronary band 17 Oct 2011 01:53 #27

  • Alicia Thompson
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Jay Mickle wrote:
As of now an MRI is scheduled for Tuesday to help establish the extent of damage that has been sustained. After that a plan for shoeing that will both address the medial sinking forces and quarter crack will need to be implemented. Perhaps not both at once, but, to maintain this horse as a dressage schoolmaster both problems will have to be dealt with in the near term. I don't know that there are any right answers so differing points of view are encouraged. Thanks for the input so far.

So was just mindlessly scanning ebay and thought about the case that was in the AFJ where the farrier applied 2-3 casts and just left the horse for a few months resulted In a good recovery as I recall.

I wonder what the effect would be if the hoof had several casts applied to stabilize everything, raise it off the ground and the bottom of the cast rasped gradually to align things.

I know everyone likes IM I do as well but I wonder if applying it to the medial side may compress the supper thin sole up against the coffin bone causing pressure necrosis from the bottom. How much pressure can such a thin sole handle? I know I have seen pour in pads set to hard for some thin soles horses and had them go sore.

Would any of you opt for silicon under the medial portion of the sole and IM under the lateral half and frog?
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RE:Groove in coronary band 17 Oct 2011 02:09 #28

  • Alicia Thompson
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Charlie Piccione wrote:
Why not forget the dressage schoolmaster statis for awhile and let the horse heal? Do what you need to do but let the horse have a break.

Unfortunately that is not his call and if the horse is sound the owner will want it working in short order.

He could refuse the work unless the horse is laid off but then the owner will likely just get another farrier to shoe the horse and "new farrier" may be both less skilled and less able to balance the horses needs with the owners requirements for the horse.

Catch 22
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RE:Groove in coronary band 18 Oct 2011 03:36 #29

Alicia Thompson wrote:
Unfortunately that is not his call and if the horse is sound the owner will want it working in short order.

He could refuse the work unless the horse is laid off but then the owner will likely just get another farrier to shoe the horse and "new farrier" may be both less skilled and less able to balance the horses needs with the owners requirements for the horse.

Catch 22

I understand that, just saying a strong recommendation should be in order. I can only imagine things go down hill in a hurry with out a warning or at least a discussion of the possibilities of bigger problems if the horse is keep on a work schedule that he can not comfortably handle. Then who will do the work?
Charlie Piccione Sr.
Washington, NJ.
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RE:Groove in coronary band 03 Nov 2011 19:53 #30

  • dgrimwoo
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The horse has cushings, size, weight, diet and detachment of the lamini has lead to rotation/desention of the coffin bone into the hoof capsule. It appears that this has lead to increased stress medially. The lateral side needs to be lowered, but there is no sole. I agree that you deal with the underlying issues which lead to the imbalance. Regain M/L balance and then you can address the quarter crack. I never thought of the cast but that is a really good Idea. What would you think of shoeing the horse in a heart bar and then cast it. Rasp off the lateral side to gain M/L balance? Also, looking at the before picture it appears that the horse is also LLD. Although you may not mess with a mature horse I believe padding the shorter leg with maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 in pad would be ok. Especially if you put casting material over the shoe on the other hoof.
Derek Grimwood, CF
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