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TOPIC: Subcorneal Groove?

RE:Subcorneal Groove? 01 Jul 2011 04:14 #31

So setting the shoe ahead of the toe does what for this horse??

Think about when we use an "extended" toe and what purpose it serves....

It doesn't serve one here.


These pictures say 2 things...

1. The horse was in so much pain, it didn't stand at all well to be worked on.

and guess what number 2 is......?
Anna Prentice
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 01 Jul 2011 04:42 #32

  • Gary Hill
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I have actually had alot of success doing this very thing. If you have removed all the dead horn, I sometimes shoe full to where it would be, not every shoe has to be set back ?
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 01 Jul 2011 14:24 #33

  • MPLdyCop
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Iron Maiden wrote:
So setting the shoe ahead of the toe does what for this horse??
Think about when we use an "extended" toe and what purpose it serves....
It doesn't serve one here.

Is it really "extended" or does it just appear that way because of the dead horn removed? Asking honestly not sarcastically.


Iron Maiden wrote:
These pictures say 2 things...

1. The horse was in so much pain, it didn't stand at all well to be worked on.

and guess what number 2 is......?

I definately agree with number one. I think he needs glue ons because last setting I got to watch he could barely stand the nailing. I wasn't present for this most recent reset.

I'm sorry I can't guess number 2 :o ........ It is???

Gary Hill wrote:
I have actually had alot of success doing this very thing. If you have removed all the dead horn, I sometimes shoe full to where it would be, not every shoe has to be set back ?

Hmm, I was taught that the shoe should be set back with the break over directly under the tip of P3. This shoe could be bumped back a bit more, but with all that dead horn removed it doesn't seem like where it is would be as big of an issue. There is no pulling sensation as he breaks over because the excess was removed.

Once again completely open to corrections on this thought process and tips or advice. I still feel a different shoeing method would have been best.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 01 Jul 2011 16:03 #34

  • Rick Burten
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I like the scalloped look he gave the dorsal wall:rolleyes: and odds are I would have rockered the toe of that shoe in such a way as to put the breakover way back/ Though the shoe cannot leverage the wall anymore +/-, it can still cause a lot of pull on the DFT which can and often does have deleterious effects on p3.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 01 Jul 2011 18:21 #35

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Rick Burten wrote:
I like the scalloped look he gave the dorsal wall:rolleyes: and odds are I would have rockered the toe of that shoe in such a way as to put the breakover way back/ Though the shoue cannot leverage the wall anymore, it can still cause a lot of pull on the DFT which wan and often does have deleterious effects on p3.

Didn't think about a rockered shoe. Some more good food for thought.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 01 Jul 2011 19:43 #36

  • Gary Hill
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Kim, every case is differant is all I can say..no one way for every one...:cool:
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 01 Jul 2011 19:58 #37

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Gary Hill wrote:
Kim, every case is differant is all I can say..no one way for every one...:cool:

Oh I know that and am definately not saying that the way I would have liked to see him shod would have been better. I'm just not seeing a great result with this current method and musing that the other may have been the ticket.

It's hard for me to say that given he has decades over me and I don't want to sound like I think I know it all.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 02 Jul 2011 02:52 #38

MPLdyCop wrote:
Is it really "extended" or does it just appear that way because of the dead horn removed? Asking honestly not sarcastically.

If you follow the angle of the new growth to the ground, that's where the toe should be.... I think the shoe is still ahead of that.
I definately agree with number one. I think he needs glue ons because last setting I got to watch he could barely stand the nailing. I wasn't present for this most recent reset.

So you didn't take the pics? If you weren't there, how did you get them? The other foot hasn't been done yet.....:confused: There are a few less painful methods of attachment..... glue is one, casting or even screws can be kinder than nailing a penetrating horse.
I'm sorry I can't guess number 2 :o ........ It is???

You probably don't really wanna know what the intention of number 2 was ;)
There is no pulling sensation as he breaks over because the excess was removed.

Are you sure about that statement? Did you ask the horse?

So, if you put the shoe where the toe "is supposed to be" as in this case, is the shoe not then acting as the toe?
Anna Prentice
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 02 Jul 2011 03:02 #39

I mean no disrespect when I say that you should approach everything with a question no matter who you work with. Questioning is not disrespectful, it's how we learn. Decades of being in the business means different things to different people. I might deal with 500 founders in a decade where someone else might only deal with 5. Everyone's experience is different.

They say, experience comes from not getting what you wanted the first time. With founder, it's a gamble and you might win, but you might not. A lot is just plain ol' luck. But, your odds are better if you play your cards right and I think you know what they are.
Anna Prentice
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 02 Jul 2011 04:13 #40

  • MPLdyCop
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Iron Maiden wrote:
So you didn't take the pics? If you weren't there, how did you get them? The other foot hasn't been done yet.....:confused:

I wasn't present for the actual shoeing. I work at the Horse Barn so I took pics as we changed the dressing.

Iron Maiden wrote:
Are you sure about that statement? Did you ask the horse?

So, if you put the shoe where the toe "is supposed to be" as in this case, is the shoe not then acting as the toe?

I meant that he likely isn't feeling a pull on the laminar attachment that is left. Now as it was previously said it's still affecting DDFT pull, so yeah still needs to be addressed.

Well I've had one person pull the "Your fresh outta school and he has 24 years" card when I stated my opinion. I hate that sentiment as I'm not discounting his experience, just questioning this method.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 02 Jul 2011 04:17 #41

  • Rick Burten
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Some folks have 24 years(or however many years) experience and some learned everything they know the first year and have repeated it 23 (or however many)more times............
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 02 Jul 2011 04:19 #42

  • MPLdyCop
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Rick Burten wrote:
Some folks have 24 years(or however many years) experience and some learned everything they know the first year and have repeated it 23 (or however many)more times............

I hope to be the former in the years to come.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 02 Jul 2011 16:16 #43

  • Travis Reed
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Rick Burten wrote:
Some folks have 24 years(or however many years) experience and some learned everything they know the first year and have repeated it 23 (or however many)more times............

Its real easy to pick those out also...they are the ones that think the way they do it is the only right way and the other 50k farriers out tthere that do it a diff way are all wrong and he ..she are shoeing gods..I'm sure we have all meet this kind..they shoeing at the same farm and you gotta hear how great they are and at all the horses they have saved over the years..and what hack everyone in the area is..
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 02 Jul 2011 20:27 #44

  • Joey Aczon
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If the horse is stall bound, b/o is about as important as a bridle path. If the horse is just standing/puttering around a stall I don't think it matters whats sticking out in front as long as the rest of the foot is addressed correctly. Also, with a horse that may or may not be preparing to penetrate the sole I sure as hell wouldn't have the inner web of the shoe far enough back that it can cause pressure on the sole should it decide to prolapse. While I most likely would have rockered the toe as Rick suggested, I have certainly left the shoe out in front a bit on a time or two with the appropriate mechanics figured in.

I understand the concern aobut breakover, but one also must consider use as well before condemning how someone decided to fit a horse.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 03 Jul 2011 01:11 #45

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both are done, the right is brought back a bit further than the left.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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