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TOPIC: Subcorneal Groove?

Subcorneal Groove? 25 Jun 2011 22:36 #1

  • MPLdyCop
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Would you do one in this situation?

This is the laminitic horse at the city. 4 months into this. Shod in heartbars.

I'm just curious about his progress. Wish there were Radiographs. I haven't spoke to David this week.

Pictures removed
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 03:33 #2

  • dana fenn
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. . . . . All i can say is "OUCH"

after 48 views and no replies, i know I'd really like to hear about a solution to this one.
Live your life in such a way, that when your feet hit the floor in the morning,
Satan shudders and says "Oh, No, she's Awake!"
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 04:25 #3

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I'm fishing for opinions. The horse is still in pain, the farrier is shoeing in the dark with no rads.
Kim Turner

www.totalhorsecare.net



Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 04:34 #4

  • Travis Reed
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MPLdyCop wrote:
I'm fishing for opinions. The horse is still in pain, the farrier is shoeing in the dark with no rads.

Maybe the dept may need to do away with the horse outfit if they are not willing to take care of the horse....watching animal planet SPCA texas they would lock a mudda up for that kinda thing ..leaving a horse in pain...you starve one and they put you under the jail......also I can't hardly see a vet not willing to shot rads for free if asked...
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 04:46 #5

kinda looks like the hoof rotating instead of the bone.
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 05:01 #6

  • Rachael Kane
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It looks like it was shod once 4months ago - why isn't it fixed yet?!?
I think the correct term for what you have asked about would be sub-coroneal grooving, unless you are talking about grooving his eyeball. My ipad changes words like that often, so maybe thats what happened in this case. Sorry I don't have anything more constructive to say, there are others far more experienced here than me. It just looks like pain from neglect to me and maybe you should be rattling some cages.
Rachael :)
CF

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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 05:16 #7

  • Red Amor
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I don't see much point in going to all the trouble to fit the bar shoe n leave the point of break over way out the end of the buggered toe
why no help the poor beast and balance the hoof set b/o back and relieve the strain n pressure
I wouldn't be grooving any bloody thing just trim n shoe properly and regularly ;)
If the beast is sore see if sole suport in the back half helps
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 12:57 #8

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Travis Reed wrote:
.also I can't hardly see a vet not willing to shot rads for free if asked...

You must have some good hearted vets in your area, there would not be one around here that would do anything for free like that. Not a chance.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 13:05 #9

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Who made the diagnosis of laminitis and how, absent rads, did they come to that conclusion? To me this looks like a grade 3 +/- club foot(and yes, I know the position can be made that that is a laminitic hoof). Regardless, it does not appear that the coronary jamming is being addressed (other hoof too), the heel height/location is , for me, unsatisfactory, nothing appears to have been done to try to reduce the compressive forces on the dorsal wall. Until those issues are addressed, grooving is contra-indicated and might even cause more problems. ymmv.

All of which Bro. Amor said, only more succinctly. :)
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 13:12 #10

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You can see the new angle of the coffin bone growing down. Aim for a straight hoof wall from that point. May not happen in one go, you don't want to weaken the hoof wall, but that's what I would shoot for if I didn't have rads. A Myron McLane pad would work great in this situation: the heels can be lowered and then wedged back up with the pad to relieve DDFT pull. Don't touch the sole in front of the frog because you don't know how much you have, but set the shoe back and rocker the toe, making sure you see air between the foot and the rocker before you nail it on. Resets should not exceed four weeks. Four nails in each shoe should do. As Red said, pointless to fit expensive bar shoes if the horse isn't going to be maintained.
Kari Hoyer
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 13:44 #11

  • Rick Talbert
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MPLdyCop wrote:
Would you do one in this situation?

This is the laminitic horse at the city. 4 months into this. Shod in heartbars.

I'm just curious about his progress. Wish there were Radiographs. I haven't spoke to David this week.

[/IMG]

My opinion is that the heart bar shoes seem to be doing a good job evidence being 4 months worth of new growth at a better angle. Leverage needs to be removed from the toe, there are several ways to go about it. But simply setting the shoe back and 45 in the toe would be better than supporting it as it is now. As far as sub corneal grooving, no I don't think you would need to groove the eyeball but it may help to take its mind off of its hooves so you could try it. ;) I am an oddball in that I don't think radiographs are always a necessity. Especially with a case like this. The new growth is telling the farrier right where shoe placement should be. The bottom surface of the hoof would also reveal more information to the farrier. Heels look like they need to be trimmed down obviously. I would prob switch from a heartbar to a myron mclane frog support wedge pad and see if it improved comfort. What is the horse's comfort level currently? The response of the hoof and horse often dictates how to shoe it. In my mind there is a staircase of options available.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 16:47 #12

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Travis,

The LT is still mad at me for resigning my patrol position. Nothing I say holds weight with him anymore. Ever since he was moved here, the unit has went downhill. He makes the upper brass happy by cutting costs.

Rachael,

Spot on with the phone correction. I catch funny replacements all the time. The horse has been shod 3 times so far. Pretty sure he is due again or at least I hope so.

Red,

I agree whole heartedly about the breakover.


Rick Burten,

Vet made the diagnosis after watching the horse walk pretty much. Was not a club before the initial insult, appears was a road founder type deal. Just went downhill after regular patrol shift but didn't see the vet till two days later. (happened while I was off, I took him to the vet) Also at last reset had very apparent solar bruising, almost see the whole imprint.


Rick Talbert,

Horse is still quite lame. Lays down a lot and still barely walks. I wondered if the new growth was a good sign or that the bone had just sank initially instead of rotating.


Thanks for all the replies. I'm trying to learn what I can from watching this, so if I get into this situation ever I'll have some ideas.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 20:30 #13

  • Travis Reed
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Rick Talbert wrote:
You must have some good hearted vets in your area, there would not be one around here that would do anything for free like that. Not a chance.

Well I say that but you may be right...I'm going mainly off the local k9 unit...they have vets and locals that pay all the bills and such....not long ago a business give the dogs bullet proof vest or stab proof vest....some kind of darn vest to keep the dogs safe...always dog lovers wanna help out ...as crazy as horse lovers are I figured someone would just love to pick up the cost.....my guess is if they made a public notice that's the police funds are low and horse is in need they be someone pick up the tab ..... .................... Kim how could the dept and the city feel right about owning the horses if they rufuse or don't have the funds to give the horses what they need....or better yet have a person that knows nothing about horses call the shots on the well being of the horses...
Travis Reed.....


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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 21:06 #14

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I agree with Travis. If the department cannot care for their horses, they need to disband the mounted patrol unit. They currently are pushing the limits on an animal cruelty issue. I service the United States Park Police horses, the DC Metro mounted unit, the Fairfax County animal shelter and am the president of the board of directors of the American Horse Protection Association as well as their consulting veterinarian. This horse needs proper attention or the department should be called to task.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:Subcorneal Groove? 26 Jun 2011 22:08 #15

  • Travis Reed
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mwmyersdvm wrote:
I agree with Travis. If the department cannot care for their horses, they need to disband the mounted patrol unit. They currently are pushing the limits on an animal cruelty issue. I service the United States Park Police horses, the DC Metro mounted unit, the Fairfax County animal shelter and am the president of the board of directors of the American Horse Protection Association as well as their consulting veterinarian. This horse needs proper attention or the department should be called to task.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

Well said doc....imho the or any dept should be setting example of proper care...
Travis Reed.....


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