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TOPIC: Why did this farrier do this?

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 00:14 #61

  • Rolltoptx
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Unfortunately, The owner is pretty insistent that they stay together which is normally fine by me.

Almost the entire width of the shoe at the toe is sticking out infront of the hoof with no rockered toe. With this mare being trimmed monthly I highly doubt the toe will move down and out that far. I would've either put on a smaller shoe or rocked up the toe of the shoe significantly. I don't have the software on my phone to draw it out at the moment.

Sorry I'm falling behind on my own thread! I'll post more when I get home.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 00:38 #62

  • Travis Reed
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I have a very strong feeling we are only getting part of the story....I have seen farriers thrown under the bus but never have I seen where a owner come in and stop doing what was asked of the vet and the trainer not have a chat with said owner...after all its just putting more stress and work on a farm owner/trainer..and surly trainer knowing what owner has done to cause flair up and now wanna make such a big hobla over brk over...... who's the farrier it would be only fair to have his side of the story.................... here is what I think happen......1st horse founder it was touch and go thankfully Vet annd farrier got horse stable......2nd grazzing muzzle was taken off and horse has flair up..this tid bit of info was left off till about post 445 and now we know why such a set back ..it was first said to be because farrier let the toe get away from him...3rd vet comes out calls for a script to be filled...farrier does the best with what he may knew how....as I have said many times as farriers we do what we think is best at the time and fill scripts best we can..4th horse getting worse and that's what happens in a flair up but everyone wants a scap goat...5th who ever pulled the mask off should step up and stop pointing fingers..surly you would not mind a invite to the farrier to tell us why he done thing they way he did..maybe he had some valid reason ....I feel like it just a hunt to find someone to agree with your theory so so one can show the owner and that way everyone else can better about the whole deal....wonder if the owner ask trainer if she felt it was ok for a little grazing ...I haven't seen many owners do anything without running it across trainers...thick as thieves I tell ya
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 01:48 #63

  • chad rice
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MPLdyCop wrote:
I also expressed concern over how or if any derotation attempts were made.

I may not have treated a laminitic horse yet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. :p


I see you expressed concern over any derotation attempts, I was more concered on getting the bony column stable and stopping rotation:rolleyes:
Chad Rice, CF
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 02:13 #64

  • Rick Talbert
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Rolltoptx wrote:
She immediately went back into boots after she was shod because she was more comfortable.
???? She went back into boots immediately after she was shod?? Help me understand, so the shoes were immediately pulled and the horse put in boots?
The vet actually recommended the farrier who is known in our area for corrective work but is also known for his ego. He personally called and emailed the farrier xrays and recommendations so they are collaborating
So, what recommendations did the vet make? Maybe this is a case of poorly thought out recommendations???.. The vet's recommendations could have been;
Recommendation #1- the house needs x number of millimeters removed from the toes. (check)
Recommendation #2- the horse needs a 2 degree wedge pad added. (check)
Recommendation #3- float the toe so its not touching the shoe (check)
Recommendation #4- keep it in the same shoes. (check)
Work completed as desired by vet, farrier may think, "well this is ****" but goes ahead and does it anyway, because a **** prescription is nothing noteworthy.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 02:15 #65

  • Rolltoptx
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Travis,

Lets take it down a notch. Trust me I KNOW what its like as a horse professional and get blamed for everything. I know we ALL have bad days as trainers, barn managers, vets and farriers. This particular farrier I don't click with because he's a bit of a diva. He blocks gates an entrances and when asked to move he whines (even if he hasn't even gotten out of his truck yet!) he's also known for "firing" clients for rather minor reasons. I've seen him do good work for another client of mine, but with this particular case he's been less than stellar for 4 months. I think Joey hit the nail on the head.. I think he's just really annoyed with the vet telling him how to do his job. I don't always agree with my vet 100% so I understand to a point how he feels, but all the vet wanted was a better break over. Again, I just wanted to get opinions on his work so that I can better help my client as much as I can.

The owner tries to take good care of her horses (she has 2 at my barn), spends a lot of money on corrective shoeing and supplements.. pays extra for special feed and extra hay.. I think with this situation she was just misinformed. I'm not sure why she thought the grass would be less dangerous because it was warmer.. its still green and we've had a lot of rain lately. With the meds, I think she thought it was fine to let her run out because that's how they've used the medication in the past for her ulcers. She didn't have an immediate relapse when the muzzle came off. The mare's attitude seemed to improve, and movement stayed about the same 1/5 for a couple of weeks which is probably why she kept it off. Not to mention there is another badly foundered mare here that is pasture boarded who also has some unconfirmed metabolic issues that is barefoot and is actually doing fairly well! That's a whole different story with a more ignorant, unintentionally neglectful owner... but that could be a little misleading too..
There are a ton of boarding facilities in my area but most of them are an even worse fit than my facility. I have 62 acres of nice grass pastures. I don't have any dry lots except for my outdoor arena which has grass around the outer edges. None of the barns in our area have dry lots, I've looked for the previous mare. A few of the hunter/jumper barns that have 50 horses on 10 acres do, but they also charge $800 a month.

All I can do is make suggestions.. Its a hard line to walk and one of the worst parts of my job as the barn owner. As much as I'd love to dictate how people care for their horses, I can't.


Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Greatly Appreciated!
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 02:20 #66

  • Rolltoptx
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Rick Talbert wrote:
Rolltoptx;236075 wrote:
???? She went back into boots immediately after she was shod?? Help me understand, so the shoes were immediately pulled and the horse put in boots?
.

No she's been wearing shoes AND boots because she's been the most comfortable like that.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 02:31 #67

  • Travis Reed
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Sure joey hit it on the head he told ya what ya been wanting to hear.... as I suspected you have had this diva farrier on ur crud list for awhile and you now ready to throw this diva under the bus in a nut shell...from ur last post it sounds like Rick has it right ...he is just doing what he is told..........the whole reason I have been agravated with this whole thread is you are letting ur personal feelings get in the way of what's best.....ur job is to train and feed and collect rent not start a witch hunt for a farrier or vet that parks by a gate...if he is having to move all the time maybe ur the one that needs to rethink ur layout....just because a traner does not like a diva does not give them the right to pull food off the table of a man just trying to make a living...
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 03:26 #68

  • Rolltoptx
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You have it wrong.. I'm not trying to nail the man's *** to a wall. I may not like him very well but I know better than to stir the pot. I've been honest with my client to the best of my ability .I told her I honestly don't understand why he did what he did and that I would research it further and also send pictures to the vet to get his opinion as well. I told her I've seen him do good work before but I wasn't impressed with his work on her horse so far. The guy is a diva, I personally think (and no I haven't told her this) he looked at her and the horse and thought that it wasn't worth his A game. She doesn't look like a rich hunter/jumper and her horse isn't a fancy warmblood like the clients he normally works on. I think that he's getting annoyed with the vet bugging him about this particular case too. He's doing a pretty good job of ruining his business all on his own, I don't think he needs my help... After all, he hasn't done anything to me personally. IMO he should do what he's told to the best of his ability whether he likes it or not. He is getting paid good money to be there and park accordingly. I'm thinking "Hey, you've been here several times now.. you saw us turning horses out in that pasture when you pulled up! Your going to get a giant dent if the gate gets loose and hits your truck and I'm not paying for it!"

So that I'm clear, I don't think he should jeopardize his safety but so many farriers I've met, don't have an open dialog with their clients; "I chose this shoe because..." or guide the client by giving them a choice "We can do this shoe because of this or that shoe because of that" and discuss pros and cons of each. If an owner has a request that you disagree with.."I will certainly do that for you, however if we do this, your horse may come up lame because...and I just want you to be aware of the possibilities before you make your decision." "Please work with your horse's ground manners, I'm not comfortable working with him when it puts my safety and his at risk and I don't want to discipline your horse in a way that makes you uncomfortable either." Most of these people don't know anything about horse's feet so politely educating them is just good business practice.


All I wanted to do is get another opinion, but you can flame me all you want if that makes you feel better.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 04:59 #69

  • MPLdyCop
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chad rice wrote:
I see you expressed concern over any derotation attempts, I was more concered on getting the bony column stable and stopping rotation:rolleyes:

Confused..... isn't that derotation?
Kim Turner

www.totalhorsecare.net



Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 06:23 #70

MPLdyCop wrote:
In terms of how I "like" to see laminitic horses treated..........

Excuse me? O, now I remember! You were that remarkable student that picked up 30 years of experience in a two week horse shoeing course.

MPLdyCop wrote:
I'd be a Redden fan over a Chapman fan.

The why is more important........



Ronald Aalders
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 06:25 #71

Rolltoptx wrote:
I've seen success/failures with both methods which leaves me somewhere in between. This mare has no sole and chronically thin soled, so more chapman based methods make sense to me in this case but not at the expense of sacrificing the break over? These are just my initial thoughts... I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong or try new things but I did want to ask because I've lurked on this forum for a while and have not seen anything resembling this.


In that case you have not been paying much attention.


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 06:45 #72

MPLdyCop wrote:
Doing my research, studying, and trying my best to improve and succeed. Hopefully you'll see that I'm not just throwing myself out there as super educated, and I state my opinions to be debated and thus learn more. :)


I think what Rick was politely trying to bring to your attention is that learning to be a farrier doesn't take years, it takes decades. And its not just "researching and reading" either. You also need to devellop feeling, feeling for the horse, the work and your own body as well. If you would have walked that road, like Rick and a lot of other shoers on this board have, you would have at least been a little humbled by it.

The fact that you obviously are not, but continue to "state my opinions to be debated" makes me think of my new puppy barking his head off at some colt, and running away fast as soon as the colt starts paying attention to him.

I agree with Rick, just sit back and pay attention, the worst that can happen that way is that you will end up with arguments pro or con the different ways to help treat laminitis.


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 10:00 #73

  • solidrockshoer
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Rolltoptx wrote:
IMO he should do what he's told to the best of his ability whether he likes it or not.

Leave your husband out of this.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 11:31 #74

  • reillyshoe
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Out of curiosity, don't you think the boots influence the breakover location? Of course they might fit the hoof perfectly, but they are generally oversized and this results in a lever when the horse walks or turns. The shoe placement is not the only determining factor in this scenario. I don't understand the mechanical goal of placing boots over the shoes.
P
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 12:18 #75

  • Rick Burten
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Eric Russell wrote:
Leave your husband out of this.
I don't care who you are, that should 'uv made you smile and laugh! Well said, Eric. :D :D
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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