make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Sunday May 29, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Why did this farrier do this?

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 07:41 #46

  • Ray_Knightley
  • Ray_Knightley's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 4219
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 0
Rolltoptx wrote:
This mare (15.1 appendix approx 800lbs, ulcer prone, metabolic disorder) was getting 2 lbs of wellsolve low starch feed in the morning and evening.. grazing muzzle on during the day, about 15 lbs of second cutting coastal hay in the evening. She also receives cimetidine twice daily. She eats incredibly slow (teeth are fine) and the mare has a rather slender frame with significant fat deposits on the neck and above her tail. She has trouble consuming large quantities of hay which is why she was receiving 4 lbs of a low starch feed daily. We switched her to 20 lbs of hay anyway with .5 lbs of enrich12 twice a day with her meds..

Interested on what medication and why?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 09:38 #47

  • david a hall
  • david a hall's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 785
  • Thank you received: 7
  • Karma: 3
Looks to me like every one has been playing catch up with this horse, with the good clinical history and regular x-rays im not sure how that has happened. Even a visual exam would of been sufficient to see that toe needed to be hacked off. That can be debated for many more pages. But the fact remains that the horse is in the predicament it is. The tip off p3 must be poking into the sole so almost couldn't be sound. Please tell me this horse isn't out in a paddock walking around, that capsule is way to unstable for that. and no amount of correction will be effective until some stability is restored. Personally at 21 years of age and metabolic considerations the prognosis is very poor. I would say that those feet have fallen over the edge and unless you have some very skilled clinicians and a lot of luck the condition will continue to progress.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 14:54 #48

  • chad rice
  • chad rice's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 679
  • Karma: 0
I know I'm a little green, so could someone explain why we are all worried about breakover, and not worried about the 3mm or less of sole under the tip of p3?:eek:
Chad Rice, CF
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 17:38 #49

  • Rolltoptx
  • Rolltoptx's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Posts: 18
  • Karma: 0
The medication we are giving her is Cimetidine.. its an ulcer medication that has antihistamine properties. Not a usual founder medication but it has helped her comfort significantly.

She is still being turned out because she is EXTREMELY buddy sour. The other horses were left out last night but I brought the mare and her buddy in. Although the mare was content the buddy was not and was very angry that she wasn't out with the other horses. If we turned out the buddy and left the mare in, she would go insane and make things worse.... The mare also never lays down (oddly enough).

David - between March and May 23 she was stable. However, around the first or second week in May the owner decided that since it was warm enough that the grazing muzzle could come off (I did not agree but its her horse). She was also out of meds at this point and decided not to get more. This combined with the lack of break over is whats caused this latest attack. She's done everything she was told by the vet (with the exception of taking the grazing muzzle off).


Chad- Yes we are VERY concerned with the sole depth and break over. The last time the farrier was out, we were supposed to FINALLY address the break over (the first time in the 4 month ordeal) but he still didn't do all that he could for the break over. The mare has gone down hill since the farrier on Friday and is crippled today.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 19:30 #50

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
Rolltoptx wrote:

She is still being turned out because she is EXTREMELY buddy sour. The other horses were left out last night but I brought the mare and her buddy in. Although the mare was content the buddy was not and was very angry that she wasn't out with the other horses. If we turned out the buddy and left the mare in, she would go insane and make things worse.... The mare also never lays down (oddly enough).

Sounds like a managerial problem.

Chad- Yes we are VERY concerned with the sole depth and break over. The last time the farrier was out, we were supposed to FINALLY address the break over (the first time in the 4 month ordeal) but he still didn't do all that he could for the break over. The mare has gone down hill since the farrier on Friday and is crippled today.

Just out of curiosity, where do you think breakover should be on this horse?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 19:46 #51

  • Travis Reed
  • Travis Reed's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1542
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 4
Roll top are you and this owner so vain and hell bent on being right that ..you say the horse ran out of meds and was to be in a muzzle....... the horses meds where stoped and the grazing muzzle was taken off and you wanna throw in oh and the brk over was not right......who ever come up with pulling muzzle off and not filling meds is the only one in the whole deal should carry any blame at all....all partys involved have givein they all for this horse and it was all for no good reason if the owners and trainers can't do one simple part......do the farrier a favor and fire him and do the horse a favor and put it down.... if you say you knew better than pulling off the muzzle off then you would have ask th e horse be loaded up and carried to a farm where sitting and watching a horse suffer is ok..
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 21:39 #52

  • mwmyersdvm
  • mwmyersdvm's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 924
  • Thank you received: 11
  • Karma: 1
This is a high scale laminitic case and $200 per month, minimal medication and a pair of heartbars with pasture turnout cannot be expected to treat this situation. I am getting the impression that the veterinarian and farrier are restricted in what they might be allowed to do for this case, so they are trying minimal techniques in the hopes that the mare can assist.
If you want the horse repaired, she should be shipped to an equine hospital that deals with these cases regularly. Redden has one in Kentucky, Reilly has one in Pennsylvania, and Floyd has one in Virginia. There are others across the country.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 21:40 #53

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Rolltoptx wrote:
The medication we are giving her is Cimetidine.. its an ulcer medication that has antihistamine properties. Not a usual founder medication but it has helped her comfort significantly.
Perhaps that's because she also has ulcers????
David - between March and May 23 she was stable. However, around the first or second week in May the owner decided that since it was warm enough that the grazing muzzle could come off (I did not agree but its her horse). She was also out of meds at this point and decided not to get more.
Since the owner doesn't want to provide properly fro the horse, perhahps it is indeed best to euthanize the horse. :(
This combined with the lack of break over is whats caused this latest attack.
Who says the breakover location has anything to do with the latest episode?

Me thinks that there is some serious CYOAF going on right now.
She's done everything she was told by the vet (with the exception of taking the grazing muzzle off).
Really? How about stopping her meds?
The mare has gone down hill since the farrier on Friday and is crippled today.
You still giving her grain and letting her graze?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 21:44 #54

  • Lori McBride
  • Lori McBride's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 202
  • Thank you received: 5
  • Karma: 0
I have been following this thread for a bit and thought I would chime in, seeing as how I was in a similar situation not that long ago.(Keep in mind that I know just enough, to know that I have just barely scratched the surface. :) ) But from what I can gather the horse was OK for a while and then started to go down hill. And while the said lack of B/O is being targeted as the main culprit, the horse husbandry (or lack there of, ie; taking grazing muzzle off, and taking off meds) seems to me a much more likely cause!!

I can empathize with the farrier. I don't know why he chose the shoeing protocol that he did. I do know that founder and laminitis can be tricky. You can have theory's and speculations and "some farrier training" but sometimes all that will get thrown out the window because the horse your working on didn't read that theory or protocol.
Awhile ago I took over shoeing a foundered pony who was in pretty bad shape. Long story short in four months got her sound at a walk, trot, canter. Just before they were to get the go ahead to start working her again, they decided to turn her out on very lush green grass for a few hours a day for a few days in a row. (She wasn't to have any grass and had been off it for a year) They were content in their ignorance, content to watch their pony barely able to move. Although the pony is doing well now, I was still very frustrated because the owners kept just saying that she was having a "flare up". Not re foundering due to grass and that I just happened to be working on her when she was having a "good spell". Thankfully the vet was in my corner and set them straight. Kinda drives home the feeling though when the horse is lame blame the farrier, when sound thank everyone but. :) :rolleyes:LOL

I am sorry I didn't mean to rant. :o To the OP I hope you and your customer can get this sorted and get the horse going down the right path. Maybe a re think about some of the decisions that have been made in this case is in order?
Lori McBride CF
McBride Horseshoeing

_______________________________________________

Don't follow where the path may lead...........go where there is no path and leave a trail.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 21:45 #55

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
chad rice wrote:
I know I'm a little green, so could someone explain why we are all worried about breakover, and not worried about the 3mm or less of sole under the tip of p3?:eek:
Chad,

Way back at post #21 I said: "From the rads, right now it appears that she is trying to punch the coffin bone out the bottom so until that is dealt with/stabilized, the horse is at high risk."

:)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 22:24 #56

  • chad rice
  • chad rice's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 679
  • Karma: 0
Rick Burten wrote:
Chad,

Way back at post #21 I said: "From the rads, right now it appears that she is trying to punch the coffin bone out the bottom so until that is dealt with/stabilized, the horse is at high risk."

:)


Sorry Rick, I guess I missed that, didn't mean to steal your thunder.... I guess great minds think alike.
Chad Rice, CF
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 22:30 #57

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
chad rice wrote:
Sorry Rick, I guess I missed that, didn't mean to steal your thunder.... I guess great minds think alike.
No worries, Chad. I don't have any thunder to steal. And you are indeed correct about great minds. ;) :)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 23:12 #58

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
chad rice wrote:
I know I'm a little green, so could someone explain why we are all worried about breakover, and not worried about the 3mm or less of sole under the tip of p3?:eek:

I guess if I was working on a horse in this condition and knew he was going to be turned out :rolleyes: I would want breakover pretty close to the tip of p3.

That's just 1 of numerous things I would think need to happen and I don't think it's anywhere close to being as important as some of the other issues that need to be addressed.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 29 May 2011 23:38 #59

  • Joey Aczon
  • Joey Aczon's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1937
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Rolltoptx wrote:
I know the photos are horrible.. this mare wouldn't stand still long enough for me to take the picture.

The shoe placement seems to far forward as if he never trimmed back the toe though. When it catches debris, its as if the toe is there and putting pressure back on the hoof isn't it? Why not rock or square the toe instead?

Not knowing the situation I do agree with your thoughts as far as the shoeing is concerned. I know guy that did this once just because he didn't agree with the vet. I can't say that's the case here, but I've known it to happen. As far as deliberate "floating" it doesn't take more than 1/8"-3/16" to achieve that.

I will say someone needs to have a serious "come to Jesus" with the owner and stop giving this horse turnout on anything but barren drylot or an arena/roundpen without ANY grass or weeds for this mare to get into. Without such a meeting I wouldn't even consider trying to help an owner llike that.

I would have a metabolic horse in a stall with nothing but a controlled starch forage/feed and hand walking. I don't know where you are but in the Houston area we have a bagged hay available with a tested/certified low starch content for around $15 for a 50# bag.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 30 May 2011 00:11 #60

  • MPLdyCop
  • MPLdyCop's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1137
  • Thank you received: 7
  • Karma: 4
chad rice wrote:
I know I'm a little green, so could someone explain why we are all worried about breakover, and not worried about the 3mm or less of sole under the tip of p3?:eek:

I also expressed concern over how or if any derotation attempts were made.

I may not have treated a laminitic horse yet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. :p
Kim Turner

www.totalhorsecare.net



Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • Chris Daniel birthday is today
  • FordWayFarm birthday is today
  • Hillbilly898 birthday is today
  • Alykee07 birthday is in 1 day
  • Anvil375 birthday is in 1 day
  • Martin Kenny birthday is in 1 day
  • mattsherberg43 birthday is in 1 day
  • missjestr birthday is in 1 day
  • Mitch White birthday is in 1 day
  • ravensgate birthday is in 1 day
  • Tim Neal birthday is in 1 day
  • Tcasey1968 birthday is in 363 days
  • JWHORSESHOEING birthday is in 364 days
  • TheCircleT birthday is in 364 days
  • THOROBREDS birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.228 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.