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TOPIC: Why did this farrier do this?

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 20:14 #16

  • MPLdyCop
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david a hall wrote:
Am i missing something, How many have you treated?

Did ya miss the "like" to see part. as opposed to saying how I "DO" treat.

I studied hard on Laminitis when in school and still do. The horse at the City that is bad off is the one me and my farrier disagree on and some of you guys here as well.
Kim Turner

www.totalhorsecare.net



Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 20:26 #17

  • Rick Burten
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Kim,

I think you are in over your head on this one. IMO, this is a good time for you to listen and learn.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 20:27 #18

  • Rolltoptx
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MPLdyCop wrote:
In terms of how I "like" to see laminitic horses treated..........

I'd be a Redden fan over a Chapman fan. The farrier I apprentice with (when he has the time now it seems :() is a Chapman fan. So we don't agree on the treatment methods for laminitis. I'll say this though, it's very true that not every horse responds the same to the same treatments. Both Redden and Chapman have had great success with their vastly different methods.

I've seen success/failures with both methods which leaves me somewhere in between. This mare has no sole and chronically thin soled, so more chapman based methods make sense to me in this case but not at the expense of sacrificing the break over? These are just my initial thoughts... I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong or try new things but I did want to ask because I've lurked on this forum for a while and have not seen anything resembling this.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 20:35 #19

  • Travis Reed
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Rolltoptx wrote:
Clint,

The horse is about the same.. she still needs to wear her soft rides. This mare is client's horse (I have farrier training but chose not to go that route as I prefer training and showing) and the client values my opinion... I personally would've done things different as you said you would've but I'm still trying to understand his methodology. The heart bar, the width of the shoe, the pads.. all of that looks fine to me. I understand floating the toe (although not to the degree he did where debris can get lodged in between the shoe and the hoof). However, the vet was more concerned with break over and DFT mechanics and I'm not sure why you can't have both in this case.

What would you have done differently?

Well if Clint was you and was a farrier as you said...first he would not had to ask why the farrier done it that way because he does CE and prob has seen it done many ways ...but if he was you he would rip that sh=t off and do it the way he wanted to...sorry I seem a bit like a smart azz but the worst people to shoe for is someone who could not hack it as a farrier and wanna tell everyone how to do the job at hand...in fact they usally so far off of what really needs done it ain't funny..
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 20:35 #20

  • Clint Burrell
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Rolltoptx wrote:
Clint,

What would you have done differently?

Don't know. Hard to say w/o horse in front of me.

I will say that if you look through the laminitis threads that there are about as many ways to shoe for it as there are breeds of horses. Some depend on personal preferance while others are dictated by region/country. Most seem to work from time to time.

As has been said before, some horses improve because of what we (farriers) do while others that improve, do it in spite of what we've done.

This horse looks to have a "long row to hoe".;)
Clint Burrell

"You say your from collage,
but you don't seem to bright.
You just brought a swichblade
to a pistol fight"
Move On by Chris Knight
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 20:36 #21

  • Rick Burten
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Rolltoptx wrote:
21 y/o appendix mare with metabolic disorder. Feb 14 - 3 degree rotation Mar 17- 10 degree rotation May 25 -23 degrees despite diet changes and cimetidine. This mare was comfortable in shoes AND soft ride boots only.
Sounds to me that the condition is still unstable so changes are and will occur. From the rads, right now it appears that she is trying to punch the coffin bone out the bottom so until that is dealt with/stabilized, the horse is at high risk. Since she was comfortable in shoes and boots, why is she not wearing the boots too?
Previous farrier left toes to long during that time and vet instructed previous farrier to remove several inches of the toe and add a 2 degree wedge. The picture I've posted show that the farrier did trim back the toe considerably and added the wedge but put the old shoe back on with a large gap between the hoof and shoe. He negates the break over he just created by trimming back the toe and then putting the same shoe back on that is now clearly to big!
I don't know that the shoe is too big. That said. I would have started a rocker toe right at the point where the hoof is trimmed/rockered up out of the way. Wouldn't have to be a huge rocker that was in contact with the wall, but just enough so that the beginning of the rockering would be the last point in ground contact at the lift-off/breakover phase of stance/stride.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 20:40 #22

  • Ray_Knightley
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Those are rehab shoes ,not for riding ,I use the same type on some cases and it works ,some of which have gone so well that it's almost impossible to tell they ever had laminitis ,even with that amount of rotation ...
The following shoeing will change as the foot develops ,I would think ...

Others will go down hill what ever you try to do ,so don't please think it's a cure all one method thing ..
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 21:13 #23

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I've seen MANY ways to shoe for founder on this thread.. but there is a general concept or theme amongst them. I havn't seen such a large gap that I can stick rocks and sticks through though..

Just because I didn't hack it as a farrier (I'd like to see you pregnant trying to shoe horses! not to mention there are 200 farriers in a 30 mile radius there is not enough money in it for me!) doesn't mean that I don't know what I"m talking about. With that being said, I was asked for my opinion by the owner of the horse.. I gave her my initial thoughts but told her I would look into it further and that's all I'm doing. I was there with the vet but not the farrier...
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 21:22 #24

  • chad rice
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Rolltoptx wrote:
I've seen MANY ways to shoe for founder on this thread.. but there is a general concept or theme amongst them. I havn't seen such a large gap that I can stick rocks and sticks through though..Just because I didn't hack it as a farrier (I'd like to see you pregnant trying to shoe horses! not to mention there are 200 farriers in a 30 mile radius there is not enough money in it for me!) doesn't mean that I don't know what I"m talking about. With that being said, I was asked for my opinion by the owner of the horse.. I gave her my initial thoughts but told her I would look into it further and that's all I'm doing. I was there with the vet but not the farrier...


Do some research on Dr. Stephen O'Grady, he floats the toe on alot of them with pretty good success:rolleyes:
Chad Rice, CF
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 21:31 #25

  • Ray_Knightley
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There are alot of pregnant looking farriers shoeing horses here ,don't think on of us will have a baby :)

I have use floats like that on some I think are in danger of dorsal secondary abscesses ,but I still feel it's too much risk to resection .Float is a float how ever wide ,,,,,always should remind the owner to keep it clean .
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 21:36 #26

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Ray_Knightley wrote:
There are alot of pregnant looking farriers shoeing horses here ,don't think on of us will have a baby :)

LOL! There's a quite bit of difference between a beer gut and a baby...fat doesn't kick you in the bladder or vag every 10 minutes!:p
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 21:39 #27

  • Travis Reed
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Rolltoptx wrote:
I've seen MANY ways to shoe for founder on this thread.. but there is a general concept or theme amongst them. I havn't seen such a large gap that I can stick rocks and sticks through though..

Just because I didn't hack it as a farrier (I'd like to see you pregnant trying to shoe horses! not to mention there are 200 farriers in a 30 mile radius there is not enough money in it for me!) doesn't mean that I don't know what I"m talking about. With that being said, I was asked for my opinion by the owner of the horse.. I gave her my initial thoughts but told her I would look into it further and that's all I'm doing. I was there with the vet but not the farrier...

ok lets go at it this way....keep the horse in a controled paddock..not full of rocks and sticks..and i will say i would have rockerd that shoe to the point of almost touching but not...with that said by no means should a trainer put the thought in the owners head the farriers doing something wrong when it just may be something you havent seen yet...now next time you see it you can say i seen that before...i been doing this a few 24hrs and see and learn everyday...not saying this is the case but sometimes owners expect or want farriers to shoe the horse where they dont have to doc or hand walk or what have ya..so anytime a horse has issues there is a lot of work on both parts.....and as far as farriers dont make enough for you...ur right there is alot that dont but you get out of it what you put in and some just aint willing to hang in , it hard work but i would put my w2s beside a trainers anyday of the week..and as far as me trying to work pregnate...your kidding right..i work pregnate everyday..you seen my belly
Travis Reed.....


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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 22:57 #28

  • MPLdyCop
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Rick Burten wrote:
Kim,

I think you are in over your head on this one. IMO, this is a good time for you to listen and learn.

I politely disagree with this. I've done a lot research on this and is enough to form my own opinion and state such. And debating it gives rise to new ideas and may be something I'd like to incorporate one day. :)

Glad I'm done with Babies........ I'd not want to try shoeing with a bun in the oven... It's not squishy like a beer gut. ;)
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 23:13 #29

  • Travis Reed
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MPLdyCop wrote:
I politely disagree with this. I've done a lot research on this and is enough to form my own opinion and state such. And debating it gives rise to new ideas and may be something I'd like to incorporate one day. :)

kim i noticed you said earlier in thread ..that you work witha mentor..now when he has time.....i took that as maybe you not getting the ride time... sometimes its best just to ride and learn what u can..its not easy to make a living full time shoeing as you will soon find out....lot to be said for a man or lady that grinds it out everyday..year 5 is when i figured out how much i did not really know...it was a big ego bust to learn i had to back up and start over...all i had to do is watch and learn but heck i went to shoeing school so i must have known something...lol..this may be why ur ride is not so free these days...:D:eek::rolleyes:
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 23:16 #30

  • MPLdyCop
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Travis Reed wrote:
kim i noticed you said earlier in thread ..that you work witha mentor..now when he has time.....i took that as maybe you not getting the ride time... sometimes its best just to ride and learn what u can..its not easy to make a living full time shoeing as you will soon find out....lot to be said for a man or lady that grinds it out everyday..year 5 is when i figured out how much i did not really know...it was a big ego bust to learn i had to back up and start over...all i had to do is watch and learn but heck i went to shoeing school so i must have known something...lol..this may be why ur ride is not so free these days...:D:eek::rolleyes:

He has something personal going on right now to where he has cut back his work. I didn't ask why or when he'll pick it back up. He is still available for me to call and get advice. He supports me going out and picking up clients, or at least acts that way as he compliments the pictures and the like.

I never got an answer on the other farrier in this area that might want to mentor a newbie right now.

On a funny note, the local farrier in the area covered all my cards with his. I found this the other day and chuckled. Last I talked to him, he seemed really nice and asking questions on my schooling and all. He's never went to school and said someone just showed him the basics. I don't know his work so I can't comment much. So for him to cover my cards was funny to me.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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