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TOPIC: Why did this farrier do this?

RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 12:59 #106

tbloomer wrote:
Wedging decreases DFT strain amplitude while increasing DFT strain period duration. There is no free lunch. :)

Tom,
What are you calling strain period duration?
Thanks.
Rick Shepherd

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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 13:38 #107

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Western Hill Forge wrote:
Tom,
What are you calling strain period duration?
Thanks.
The amount of time the maximum strain is placed on the DFT during weight bearing. In a graph of strain (Y) vs. time(X), the height of the strain curve (Y) is lower with a wedge, but the peak of the strain curve (X) is spread out over a longer period of time - increasing breakover strain duration immediately preceding heel lift.

reference - "Equine Locomotion," Clayton, Bach.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 13:44 #108

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Western Hill Forge wrote:
Tom,
What are you calling strain period duration?
Thanks.
Obviously Im not Tom, but I think he is referring to the length of time it takes from the onset of strain to begin breakover to when strain has ended. Studies(and I don't have them at my finger tips :( ) have shown that once the angles are raised beyond 'optimum' it takes longer to accomplish the task required thus increasing the amount of time the strain is in effect.IIRC, the studies also concluded that in either case (optimal angulation or higher than optimal angulation) the peak strain was the same.

I'm sure Bro Tom will correct any mistakes I have made on this, so I'll just apologize for them now. :o :)

the other, other Rick
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 14:18 #109

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tbloomer wrote:
Funny, that is precisely why I like Chapman's approach.

So in Chapman's approach is the relief on the DFT because the heart bar is raised slightly to aid derotation, rather than lower the heels?

Am I thinking right on that?
Kim Turner

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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 15:51 #110

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MPLdyCop wrote:
So in Chapman's approach is the relief on the DFT because the heart bar is raised slightly to aid derotation, rather than lower the heels?

Am I thinking right on that?
Nope, not even close. Don't feel bad, I had to explain it to Doug Butler too. ;) (1)

Heart bar provides direct (pre-loaded) weight bearing support directly below the center of weight bearing of P3. Heart bar support is fixed, unyielding, maintained through all phases including peak force at heel lift.

Any other system that employs soft or yielding support material loses its support at peak DFT tension during heel lift.

(1) Beware of Foot Fads, by Doug Butler, PhD, CJF, FWCF, 2004 AFA Convention lecture, Professional Farrier, March/April, 2004
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 16:24 #111

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Do the Bone leave the hoof capsel ?
Or does the hoof capsel leave the Bone ?

Or do you bring the bone back to the right angel in the hoof capsel ?
Or do you bring the hoof capsel back in the right place around the bone?


This is the question I asked as I worked on a TB years back the bone rotation was so far that it had fractured the navicular bone ,the sink was so sunk that the ground stopped it coming down anymore......then the hoof capsel went upwards around the leg...ouch..
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 16:25 #112

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tbloomer wrote:
Nope, not even close. Don't feel bad, I had to explain it to Doug Butler too. ;) (1)

Heart bar provides direct (pre-loaded) weight bearing support directly below the center of weight bearing of P3. Heart bar support is fixed, unyielding, maintained through all phases including peak force at heel lift.

Any other system that employs soft or yielding support material loses its support at peak DFT tension during heel lift.

(1) Beware of Foot Fads, by Doug Butler, PhD, CJF, FWCF, 2004 AFA Convention lecture, Professional Farrier, March/April, 2004

I understood that the heart bar is unyielding. I watched that video by Burney Chapman and learned one new thing and that was that he raises the bar slightly above the level of the shoe. Now my farrier has not been doing that, and that could be something that might make the Chapman approach work for that horse.

My question was less about that and more geared toward this:

If the heels aren't lowered and the heart bar is the main method seeking derotation, would that be one reason DFT strain is lessened. There was no dropping the fetlock so to speak.

And yes that makes sense about the amount of time it's under strain.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 16:31 #113

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Rick Burten wrote:
Obviously Im not Tom, but I think he is referring to the length of time it takes from the onset of strain to begin breakover to when strain has ended. Studies(and I don't have them at my finger tips :( ) have shown that once the angles are raised beyond 'optimum' it takes longer to accomplish the task required thus increasing the amount of time the strain is in effect.IIRC, the studies also concluded that in either case (optimal angulation or higher than optimal angulation) the peak strain was the same.

I'm sure Bro Tom will correct any mistakes I have made on this, so I'll just apologize for them now. :o :)

the other, other Rick
Correct. What we rob from Peter to pay Paul is taken back from Paul in the 4th dimension. "It depends" plays a roll in whether or not Paul has to pay back principle plus interest or just principle. ;)
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 16:37 #114

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Ray_Knightley wrote:
Do the Bone leave the hoof capsel ?
Or does the hoof capsel leave the Bone ?

Or do you bring the bone back to the right angel in the hoof capsel ?
Or do you bring the hoof capsel back in the right place around the bone?

What came first the Chicken or the Egg? lol sorry that came to mind.

I'd think that it's one in the same on the questions above. it's been separated. I think the two methods discussed reach the same means, but one by manipulating the capsule and one by manipulating the bone.

Ray_Knightley wrote:
This is the question I asked as I worked on a TB years back the bone rotation was so far that it had fractured the navicular bone ,the sink was so sunk that the ground stopped it coming down anymore......then the hoof capsel went upwards around the leg...ouch..

:eek:
Kim Turner

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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 16:38 #115

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tbloomer wrote:
Correct. What we rob from Peter to pay Paul is taken back from Paul in the 4th dimension. "It depends" plays a roll in whether or not Paul has to pay back principle plus interest or just principle. ;)

Is that Quantom Physics? lol
Kim Turner

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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 16:40 #116

Tom and Rick,

Thanks for the explanation. Really good info to chew on.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 16:51 #117

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MPLdyCop wrote:
My question was less about that and more geared toward this:

If the heels aren't lowered and the heart bar is the main method seeking derotation, would that be one reason DFT strain is lessened. There was no dropping the fetlock so to speak.
If the axis of the phalanges is not aligned, then the normal weight bearing vector of P3 is not aligned either. If you're going to wrap your head around this, you need to get off of your focus on the DFT - it is a secondary element.

Look at P3 itself as the central weight bearing structure of the foot. Look at the center of P3 as a POINT where (absent a flexural deformity) the limb will load in phillangeal alignment with P3 not tipping forward or back.

Duckett's Dot is the point in the foot where the mechanical forces of gravity and ground reaction forces converge.
Tom Bloomer
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 16:58 #118

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MPLdyCop wrote:
Is that Quantom Physics? lol
No. Time is a classical physics dimension.
Tom Bloomer
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 17:32 #119

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Western Hill Forge wrote:
Tom and Rick,

Thanks for the explanation. Really good info to chew on.

Regards
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting, not the chewing. :D
Tom Bloomer
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 31 May 2011 17:36 #120

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Tom,
That's great information that your giving and I like how you present it. The Duckett's Dot principle had been a bit hard for me to grasp til now. Thanks :D

I'm was actually purposely focusing on DFT strain and it alone for the moment. Due to the original comment of the reason you like Chapman over Redden was because of my same reasons for liking Redden. "B.O. and DFT relief"

So I was just trying to elaborate on that at the moment. I understand it's a small part of the whole process.
Kim Turner

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