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TOPIC: Why did this farrier do this?

Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 16:06 #1

  • Rolltoptx
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21 y/o appendix mare with metabolic disorder. Feb 14 - 3 degree rotation Mar 17- 10 degree rotation May 25 -23 degrees despite diet changes and cimetidine. This mare was comfortable in shoes AND soft ride boots only.

Previous farrier left toes to long during that time and vet instructed previous farrier to remove several inches of the toe and add a 2 degree wedge. The picture I've posted show that the farrier did trim back the toe considerably and added the wedge but put the old shoe back on with a large gap between the hoof and shoe. He negates the break over he just created by trimming back the toe and then putting the same shoe back on that is now clearly to big!

Can anyone explain his methodology? (Sorry for the horrible pictures, the mare couldn't see her buddy and wouldn't stand still long enough to get a decent photo.)
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 16:25 #2

  • Gary Hill
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The last photo would of been better if you would have cleaned it off, but can see that it is a heartbar. So the reason the toe is up like it is is so there is no pressure on the sole of the hoof, when you have rotation it is the coffin bone that rotates and the tip of the bone at the toe makes the sole flat as it drops...Nice job considering the problem...
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 16:35 #3

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I know the photos are horrible.. this mare wouldn't stand still long enough for me to take the picture.

The shoe placement seems to far forward as if he never trimmed back the toe though. When it catches debris, its as if the toe is there and putting pressure back on the hoof isn't it? Why not rock or square the toe instead?
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 16:35 #4

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I would love to see some lateral shots, if that is possible.

My opinion is that the break over is not a problem when shod like this because with the gap there is no "stretching of the laminae" when the horse is breaking over. My concern would be more of how the derotation attempts have not succeeded. Heels brought back far enough, etc.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 16:38 #5

  • Ray_Knightley
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Due to the laminitis the dorsal wall has lost it's correct connection to the pedel bone .
The shoeing here supports p3 with the bar, and pad over the Back of the foot. The dorsal margin of p3 is floated so it has no ground pressure ,the lose dorsal wall will not only stretch forward under pressure .
It will also put pressure on the dorsal coronary area causing pain as to detached wall gets pushed up by ground pressure as the hoof breaksover as the horses moves ...floating the toe will switch off this danger ,and help the dorsal wall to grow down in the correct angle.

If the horse is happy it's going the right way in these shoes .

Hope that helps?
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 16:51 #6

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I'm not doubting the heart bar or the pad, I'm not sure why he'd choose to float the toe in this case. He has far greater experience than I in corrective shoeing but I have lost a bit of faith in his work considering his previous work on this mare. She has been in heart bars since Feb, but he left the toes way to long with the RF being a full 1/2" longer than the left.

I should also note, there is no change in the horse's comfort level, and still wears her soft rides.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 16:56 #7

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MPLdyCop wrote:
I would love to see some lateral shots, if that is possible.

My opinion is that the break over is not a problem when shod like this because with the gap there is no "stretching of the laminae" when the horse is breaking over. My concern would be more of how the derotation attempts have not succeeded. Heels brought back far enough, etc.

The lateral shots I obtained were too blurry.. Iphones take great pictures but it was no match for this naughty mare.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 17:29 #8

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It depends on how each individual horse responds to shoe placement, some do good with a short toe and quicker breakover and others do well with a little longer lever...as long as the horse moves around, doesnt lay down from long periods it is most likely doing fine...give it some time, you can clearly see the ring growing down from when the laminitic problem began..
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 18:18 #9

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I attached her xrays. The first set is from March when she was at her worst (pain wise). We pulled her shoes and put her in pads and soft rides at that point to improve her comfort. The previous farrier also had xrays to guide him each time trimming at 4-5 week intervals.

The last xray is her right foot which is slightly less rotated .2 degrees than the left but she is more sore on her right foot which would suggest to me that she is more comfortable with a shorter break over.
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 18:34 #10

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One reason for not removing too much toe and instead floating that area is to not remove the connection between medial /lateral wall ,this is done sometimes if it's not sure how much M/L laminar detachment is in the case at hand .
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 19:19 #11

  • Clint Burrell
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Was the horse better, worse, or the same after shoeing?

You've been given valid reasons for what was done though anyone/everyone may do things a bit different, myself included.

You apparently don't like/agree w/ what this farrier has done, but was it detrimental to the horse?

Had the farrier not rasped the toes back, as per the vet, in order to maintain hoof wall integrity, you would still complain.

It may not be completely right, but it's not wrong either.

As someone on here say's quite often, "It depends".

My suggestion is to do this farrier a favor and not to use him/her on your horses.
Clint Burrell

"You say your from collage,
but you don't seem to bright.
You just brought a swichblade
to a pistol fight"
Move On by Chris Knight
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 19:28 #12

  • Gary Hill
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This horse is going to go back and forth on which hoof feels worse than the other..They are both bad and he/she will alternate weight bearing for quite a while until better horn grows down...the damage has for the most part been done, now damage control is what you are after..Good Luck!
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 19:57 #13

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In terms of how I "like" to see laminitic horses treated..........

I'd be a Redden fan over a Chapman fan. The farrier I apprentice with (when he has the time now it seems :() is a Chapman fan. So we don't agree on the treatment methods for laminitis. I'll say this though, it's very true that not every horse responds the same to the same treatments. Both Redden and Chapman have had great success with their vastly different methods.
Kim Turner

www.totalhorsecare.net



Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 20:10 #14

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Clint,

The horse is about the same.. she still needs to wear her soft rides. This mare is client's horse (I have farrier training but chose not to go that route as I prefer training and showing) and the client values my opinion... I personally would've done things different as you said you would've but I'm still trying to understand his methodology. The heart bar, the width of the shoe, the pads.. all of that looks fine to me. I understand floating the toe (although not to the degree he did where debris can get lodged in between the shoe and the hoof). However, the vet was more concerned with break over and DFT mechanics and I'm not sure why you can't have both in this case.

What would you have done differently?
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RE:Why did this farrier do this? 28 May 2011 20:11 #15

  • david a hall
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MPLdyCop wrote:
In terms of how I "like" to see laminitic horses treated..........

I'd be a Redden fan over a Chapman fan. The farrier I apprentice with (when he has the time now it seems :() is a Chapman fan. So we don't agree on the treatment methods for laminitis. I'll say this though, it's very true that not every horse responds the same to the same treatments. Both Redden and Chapman have had great success with their vastly different methods.
Am i missing something, How many have you treated?
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