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TOPIC: navicular

RE:navicular 02 Apr 2011 21:25 #211

  • mwmyersdvm
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david a hall wrote:
Im guessing because it is a 2d image of a 3d object, any angle reading is going to be incorrect.

That would be my take on it as well. Need to cover this with John.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:navicular 02 Apr 2011 21:40 #212

  • david a hall
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Dr Renate Weller has written lots on the subject.
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RE:navicular 02 Apr 2011 21:48 #213

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david a hall wrote:
Dr Renate Weller has written lots on the subject.

On coronet angles?

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:navicular 02 Apr 2011 21:52 #214

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mwmyersdvm wrote:
I have attached an image of how it is done on my system. It appears to be using the middle line in a curved hairline and not the front to rear average or straight line.

I do agree that the ranges were not 'ideal', but they were the horses John Craig saw in his field observations and measurements.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=562&pictureid=5271

You can easily check the numbers. Take this image ans use the 'free mark-up' tool to place an additional angle over this image. I suspect you will find the heel and toe markers will dictate the angle relative to the ground.
P
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RE:navicular 02 Apr 2011 21:54 #215

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mwmyersdvm wrote:
That would be my take on it as well. Need to cover this with John.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.


A radiograph is also a 2d representation of a 3d object. Would you consider radiographs to be an accurate representation of a hoof/limb?
P
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RE:navicular 02 Apr 2011 22:07 #216

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I guess you can get a ball park but it wont be accurate, any check you run on the photo will be accurate, its just the 2d image isnt an accurate representation of the hoof.
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RE:navicular 02 Apr 2011 22:32 #217

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reillyshoe wrote:
A radiograph is also a 2d representation of a 3d object. Would you consider radiographs to be an accurate representation of a hoof/limb?

For the measurements usually taken, these are actually two dimensional at the point they are taken so it is less of a problem. The parameters used have been done on radiographs for some time so there is a fair amount of data to back up the validity of the measurements. The radiograph acts more like a cross section on a lateral view than a lateral photograph does. The photo tries to mimic three dimensions while the radiograph essentially 'flattens' the image in the way it acquires the image so the production of the picture is a little different.

Additionally, radiographs are taken at a number of angles to work out the three dimensions for diagnostic purposes. CT takes many angles at many levels and can reconstruct the image in three dimensions upon the completion of the study.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:navicular 02 Apr 2011 23:42 #218

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This is the exact sort of ball park piffle that's worrying with the veterinary world today & that's not leaving out the so called expert farrier clinicians.
Its hard to refrain from sarcasm, But one could say.The average man in the streets wild guess would be more accurate & more adapt on the subject .
Dr Myers what flaws do you see in that hoof in the photograph you presented. rendering it a useless representation to draw conclusion from & that you would never use as a broad guide for determining average coronet angles in a horse .
Owen Charles McLaren
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RE:navicular 03 Apr 2011 09:26 #219

  • tbloomer
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owen charles wrote:
Well nothing really other then it giving your sketches a bit more scope on coronet angle in relation to toe & sole .
Do your own sketches . . . .
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:navicular 03 Apr 2011 15:33 #220

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owen charles wrote:
This is the exact sort of ball park piffle that's worrying with the veterinary world today & that's not leaving out the so called expert farrier clinicians.
Its hard to refrain from sarcasm, But one could say.The average man in the streets wild guess would be more accurate & more adapt on the subject .
Dr Myers what flaws do you see in that hoof in the photograph you presented. rendering it a useless representation to draw conclusion from & that you would never use as a broad guide for determining average coronet angles in a horse .

The general discussion aside from your direct critique is that coronet angles do not really fit into the equation. I see you have some rather rigid opinions that few people share about a great many topics, but I prefer keeping an open mind and continuing to look for better ways to accomplish goals and move forward. I have excellent results with my "piffle", so I will continue to use it and improve my skills and share my findings for everyone's review and benefit where applicable. Pat and I are merely discussing our respective observations and ideas regarding the Metron program and it's pluses and minuses. There are no perfect solutions, not even yours, at this time.

"Best guesses" may work well for the backyard horse, but some real data usually needs to be applied to the upper level performance horses. The farrier and veterinary professions are constantly evolving and one can either move forward with new ideas and technology or fall into the path of the dinosaur.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:navicular 03 Apr 2011 17:36 #221

  • chris bunting
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pug says , skippy is a troll .
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:navicular 03 Apr 2011 22:19 #222

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mwmyersdvm wrote:
The general discussion aside from your direct critique is that coronet angles do not really fit into the equation. I see you have some rather rigid opinions that few people share about a great many topics, but I prefer keeping an open mind and continuing to look for better ways to accomplish goals and move forward. I have excellent results with my "piffle", so I will continue to use it and improve my skills and share my findings for everyone's review and benefit where applicable. Pat and I are merely discussing our respective observations and ideas regarding the Metron program and it's pluses and minuses. There are no perfect solutions, not even yours, at this time.

"Best guesses" may work well for the backyard horse, but some real data usually needs to be applied to the upper level performance horses. The farrier and veterinary professions are constantly evolving and one can either move forward with new ideas and technology or fall into the path of the dinosaur.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
In other words you couldn't see it.
Owen Charles McLaren
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RE:navicular 03 Apr 2011 22:30 #223

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owen charles wrote:
In other words you couldn't see it.

Then perhaps I could benefit from your sage wisdom and you can point them out.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:navicular 03 Apr 2011 22:34 #224

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chris bunting wrote:
pug says , skippy is a troll .
chris
Having an opinion on a farrier forum makes you a Troll does it.?This forum must be the epicentre for trolls then.
So what would you call an angry little man with very average shoeing skills that keeps snuffling like a little mangy pug .?
Any suggestions chris ?
Owen Charles McLaren
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RE:navicular 03 Apr 2011 22:40 #225

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mwmyersdvm wrote:
Then perhaps I could benefit from your sage wisdom and you can point them out.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
Have a look at the growth ring & lack of fullness in the bulbs.;) one would have to say that is not a model average normal healthy hoof.
Owen Charles McLaren
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