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TOPIC: navicular

RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 13:15 #166

  • reillyshoe
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DeniseMc wrote:
Ob page 294 of Doug Butler's book "The Prinicples of Horseshoeing II" (fourth printing 1995, org 1974), he illustrates "correct and ideal" pastern and toe angles and specifically mentions pastern and toe angles but no reference to coronet angles. It appears the coronet angle is about 27 degrees, the toe angle is about 48 degrees.

What an excellent example of a reference Denise!
P
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 13:24 #167

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owen charles wrote:
Oh I can provide it. I was just wanting Denise to reference the 30 degrees TO WHAT! other liner .

Either you can provide the reference or you can't. You said it was easy, just as you brought up hoof wearing and coronet angle.

Baron said well- all brass, no buckle!

There is no aggression in my post, but there is frustration. I do not frequently use banana shoes, but I do have an open mind and a willingness to learn from farriers who are as successful as Ron Aalders. You, on the other hand, come here arguing everything from the diagnosis on a horse you have never seen to importance of wearing patterns to growth patterns and making claims you cannot back up. Bluntly, you make us all (farriers) look bad.
P
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 13:50 #168

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reillyshoe wrote:
Either you can provide the reference or you can't. You said it was easy, just as you brought up hoof wearing and coronet angle.

Baron said well- all brass, no buckle!

There is no aggression in my post, but there is frustration. I do not frequently use banana shoes, but I do have an open mind and a willingness to learn from farriers who are as successful as Ron Aalders. You, on the other hand, come here arguing everything from the diagnosis on a horse you have never seen to importance of wearing patterns to growth patterns and making claims you cannot back up. Bluntly, you make us all (farriers) look bad.
Well you keep plodding along on your hi horse & be careful not to fall off again . Iv read a few of your posts .You make us all (farriers) look bad.
When was the election held that crowned you head speaker for all Farriers ?. I must of nodded off with the boredom of your repetitious sucking up to Baron & mist that vote.
Owen Charles McLaren
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 13:57 #169

What exactly qualifies you as a farrier? Other then your sayso that is. Did you ever post your work? I'm interested to learn how you shoe horses.


Ronald Aalders
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 14:01 #170

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DeniseMc wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I blindly believe a 30 degree coronet angle is what every horse should have. I think there is a range-probably 25 to 30 that would be acceptable depending on the horse and its environment; anything outside that range starts to indicate problems-whether that's clubfoot or rotated coffin bone or negative PA. Ob page 294 of Doug Butler's book "The Prinicples of Horseshoeing II" (fourth printing 1995, org 1974), he illustrates "correct and ideal" pastern and toe angles and specifically mentions pastern and toe angles but no reference to coronet angles. It appears the coronet angle is about 27 degrees, the toe angle is about 48 degrees. Do you think this is "ideal and correct? Is this the type of information you are referring to in older texts?
I think the hairline slope is a good tool to use, but certainly not the holy grail.
I look forward to your photos!!
No I don't.
Owen Charles McLaren
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 14:17 #171

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I might be in agreement with Baron, but that is not "sucking up". The only high horse I am riding is one that recognizes that there are many successful ways to shoe a horse.

Think about it, an internationally respected farrier (Ron) presents a case with a diagnosis, but someone on a different continent feels compelled to determine that the horse has been misdiagnosed.

The horse gets better in the new trim/shoe, but someone who has never seen the horse thinks they can do better.

I would be willing to bet that Denise never gets the reference. Everyone can be an expert on the Internet!
P
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 14:18 #172

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Ronald Aalders wrote:
you as a farrier? Other then your sayso that is. Did you ever post your work? I'm interested to learn how you shoe horses.


Ronald Aalders
I can see now why my brother use to loose his cool with this forum. Its relentless & you even have the forum owner putting his two bobs worth in as well.:eek:
What exactly qualifies me as a farrier. Well according to the forum rules. Nailing or gluing on a shoe to a horse.:p I think that just about covers it.:cool: or am I mistaken & that doesn't apply to skippy.:D
Owen Charles McLaren
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 14:31 #173

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reillyshoe wrote:
I might be in agreement with Baron, but that is not "sucking up". The only high horse I am riding is one that recognizes that there are many successful ways to shoe a horse.

Think about it, an internationally respected farrier (Ron) presents a case with a diagnosis, but someone on a different continent feels compelled to determine that the horse has been misdiagnosed.

The gets better in the new trim/shoe, but someone who has never seen the horse thinks they can do better.

I would be willing to bet that Denise never gets the reference. Everyone can be an expert on the Internet!
Do you really want me to go out of my way to help Denise the bare foot trimmer ? What the heck we could become best buds.Now wouldn't that be a great tag team. Think about it. Then have anther real good hard think about it.
Owen Charles McLaren
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 14:34 #174

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You offered to provide her with the reference. And yes, I am happy to share my knowledge of farriery with horseowners, vets or trimmers.

I take exception to people who presume to have all of the answers regarding hoofcare. Granted, many barefoot trimmers have that mentality. In this case, you exhibit this know it all mentality much more than Denise.
P
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 15:06 #175

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reillyshoe wrote:
You offered to provide her with the reference. And yes, I am happy to share my knowledge of farriery with horseowners, vets or trimmers.

I take exception to people who presume to have all of the answers regarding hoofcare. Granted, many barefoot trimmers have that mentality. In this case, you exhibit this know it all mentality much more than Denise.
You know what. I'm spent.I can't be bothered with you or posting any more on this forum. I will do what I have done in the past. Just read the boards & have a good laugh at some of the nonsense posted. catch ya round.
Owen Charles McLaren
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 15:57 #176

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owen charles wrote:
You know what. I'm spent.I can't be bothered with you or posting any more on this forum. I will do what I have done in the past. Just read the boards & have a good laugh at some of the nonsense posted. catch ya round.

Promises, Promises, hope you keep them better than your brother did.
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 17:14 #177

DeniseMc wrote:
You're right, I should have worded that a bit differently. The point is, other than Strasser and Redden both recognizing 30 degree hairline slope as "normal", no one else seems to pay much attention to coronet angle

the Metron software does pay attention to coronet angles, but recognizes coser to 25 degrees as normal.
Karen Standefer
Southern Oregon
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 17:27 #178

I put Mr. McLaren on ignore, but unfortunately the rest of the conversation doesn't make sense now. Maybe everyone could "ignore" him and then the conversation could return to being productive. This is a thread I was really interested in. Very disturbing to see it hijacked by a contrarian who makes no sense (nothing wrong with contrarians if they have a logical viewpoint).
Karen Standefer
Southern Oregon
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 19:46 #179

  • tbloomer
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KarenStandefer wrote:
the Metron software does pay attention to coronet angles, but recognizes coser to 25 degrees as normal.
Normal or "average" of a group of samples? Or did the software programmer decide 25 degrees is "normal?"
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:navicular 31 Mar 2011 20:07 #180

tbloomer wrote:
Normal or "average" of a group of samples? Or did the software programmer decide 25 degrees is "normal?"

Don't have a clue and that wasn't the point. Just saying that there are other people besides Redden and Strasser who pay attention to coronet angles.
Karen Standefer
Southern Oregon
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