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TOPIC: Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix?

RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 20:26 #16

Ray_Knightley OFFLINE Master Posts: 4219 Thank you received: 2 Karma: 0	One thought would Be a Horse mostly will Not give you the healthy hoof As He needs that to stand on.
	Ray Knightley.Farrier .Germany. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEXXUdU--Zg&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=AVGxdCwVVULXfIor1lgBXd3RK781l46jgn The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 20:35 #17

Alicia Thompson OFFLINE Very Senior Member Posts: 775 Thank you received: 1 Karma: 0	I think some of what you guys are seeing as knee jerk reaction at least in my part is due to Peter's other posts. Seems he gets the short end of the stick client wise in many cases.
	Forget thinking outside the box, instead realize there is no box. - Alicia Thompson http://thompsonfarrierservice.com The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 20:52 #18

Western Hill Forge
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Just had an inspiration: Law and Order episode 7 zillion - "The Customer is always right"

Kimmie takes her car in for inspection.

Kimmie: Put a sticker on and check the air in the tires'

Mechanic: You need new ball joints.

Kimmie: No, that's ok, just the sticker and air, thank you.

Mechanic: Ok Ma'am, the customer is always right!

On her way home the wheel falls off Kimmie's car and she rolls it over, killing several bystanders.

There is an investigation and the bad ball joints are found to be the cause, so they arrest the mechanic for negligence and involuntary manslaughter.

The case goes to court, but is dismissed because "The customer is always right".

Well, that was fun!!

Do you think I could sell it??

:D

Gotta go 'cause I got a 4 o'clock, but y'all can get back to me.

Regards

Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers

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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 23:17 #19

Western Hill Forge OFFLINE Master Posts: 1431 Thank you received: 23 Karma: 5	On the drive back, I thought about how to cast this out: Alan would obviously be the mechanic. Kim would play herself. Chris and Ray would be the arresting officers (bad cop, good cop), and Denise would have to be the defense attorney. Justin could be the DA and Alicia could be the Judge. I'll direct. (I think I'm spending too much time on line) Regards
	Rick Shepherd Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 00:05 #20

irishcas OFFLINE Master Posts: 1708 Thank you received: 1 Karma: 0	mybluedanube wrote: I think some of what you guys are seeing as knee jerk reaction at least in my part is due to Peter's other posts. Seems he gets the short end of the stick client wise in many cases. I certainly wasn't talking about you
	Kim Cassidy "I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 00:34 #21

reillyshoe
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irishcas wrote:

I say I'd like tranq but if the owner doesn't want it, that is there prerogative. It is then my choice whether I choose to continue or not. Again, depends on many things.

I can understand where you are coming from but the age old adage "The Customer is Always Right" comes into play. Who knows, maybe the horse reacts violently to drugs and the owner is aware of this and it hasn't been communicated to us thru Peter.

My point being the reaction by some is a typical one. It seems that a prevailing attitude by some is that the Farrier is always right and the owners are fecking *****s. Whom should shut up and do as the farrier says. I for one, don't care for that attitude and was bringing that up in a polite way

Which, in other words means if I tell someone "it is my prerogative to continue or not" then the choice is warranted, but if a farrier does it then it is another case of "the Farrier is always right and the owners are fecking *****s. Whom should shut up and do as the farrier says".

Did I get that right? When EXACTLY is it ok to judge the other professional's choice?

P

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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 00:49 #22

Peters Shoeing
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Ok, ok, hold your horses everyone.

To confirm, the horse had an abscess blow-out before I came to service the horse ever. I came and helped treat the abscess, suggested shoes, owner said no. She asked me to speak with the vet. I did. He suggested shoes. Owner again, said no. To be honest, I think it was a money issue possibly.

Weeks pass. I come back for the trim. The hoof is laminitic. Now, the owner agrees to shoes. The vet is called in for sedatives. Neither of us suspected an abscess. Hoof temp was taken, vet inspected, etc. The vet explains sedative-risks, owner delines. I try to get through it. It was dangeous, horse went nutso during vettec. I stopped and casted instead, a decision made and discussed with the vet. Horse walked off like the pain was never there, trotting fine. Owner was happy.

Some days pass and I was going to come to cut a hole in the sole-side of the cast and maybe Sil-pac/Equi-pak it up for extra support. Got the call that the horse was lame. I posted on here thinking I should obviously remove the cast. The owner paid for it and found it helping the first few days, so she wanted to wait it out a bit before full-on removing it. The cast never contacted the coronary band, but I still figured it would be constricting if an abscess was passing. And, it may very well be. Vet wanted to be the one to care for the abscess, he was coming out the next day.

End result: I cut a slit into the sole, we poulticed it. Abscess emerged. Horse is much better. The equicast is still on too. All in all, not a bad ending.

Now, my question is...how many of you go digging into the hoof to expose an abscess? If I find no signs, I like to leave it to the vet. I really only do it if it is obvious. How about you guys?

Another question: Has anyone else had an abscess appear with no signs after equicast/soundhorse cuff-applications?

ETA: Denise, too much reading into it. Sorry but this thread has little to do with how I present suggestions vs. requirements to my clients, furthermore, no offense, but's that's not your concern. I flat out asked if anyone has dealt with equicast and abscesses. I was asking for discussions on real-experience with casting and abscesses. No one really had any. Yourself included. In the end, I didnt remove the cast.

Alan Peters

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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 00:55 #23

Peters Shoeing OFFLINE Senior Member Posts: 496 Thank you received: 2 Karma: 0	Chris is right, it was a learning experience to work without sedatives. The horse was complient for a bit, then it went down-hill. I thought about walking away, but the horse had one shoe on. I've not yet walked away and left a horse with one shoe on. I probably should have. Got through it though.
	Alan Peters The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 02:48 #24

Alicia Thompson
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Western Hill Forge wrote:

On the drive back, I thought about how to cast this out:

Alan would obviously be the mechanic.
Kim would play herself.
Chris and Ray would be the arresting officers (bad cop, good cop), and Denise would have to be the defense attorney. Justin could be the DA and Alicia could be the Judge.

I'll direct.

(I think I'm spending too much time on line)

Regards

Woo Hoo I get to be the judge!! lol

Forget thinking outside the box, instead realize there is no box.
- Alicia Thompson

http://thompsonfarrierservice.com

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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 02:49 #25

Alicia Thompson
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Peters Shoeing wrote:

Ok, ok, hold your horses everyone.

To confirm, the horse had an abscess blow-out before I came to service the horse ever. I came and helped treat the abscess, suggested shoes, owner said no. She asked me to speak with the vet. I did. He suggested shoes. Owner again, said no. To be honest, I think it was a money issue possibly.

Weeks pass. I come back for the trim. The hoof is laminitic. Now, the owner agrees to shoes. The vet is called in for sedatives. Neither of us suspected an abscess. Hoof temp was taken, vet inspected, etc. The vet explains sedative-risks, owner delines. I try to get through it. It was dangeous, horse went nutso during vettec. I stopped and casted instead, a decision made and discussed with the vet. Horse walked off like the pain was never there, trotting fine. Owner was happy.

Some days pass and I was going to come to cut a hole in the sole-side of the cast and maybe Sil-pac/Equi-pak it up for extra support. Got the call that the horse was lame. I posted on here thinking I should obviously remove the cast. The owner paid for it and found it helping the first few days, so she wanted to wait it out a bit before full-on removing it. The cast never contacted the coronary band, but I still figured it would be constricting if an abscess was passing. And, it may very well be. Vet wanted to be the one to care for the abscess, he was coming out the next day.

End result: I cut a slit into the sole, we poulticed it. Abscess emerged. Horse is much better. The equicast is still on too. All in all, not a bad ending.

Now, my question is...how many of you go digging into the hoof to expose an abscess? If I find no signs, I like to leave it to the vet. I really only do it if it is obvious. How about you guys?

Another question: Has anyone else had an abscess appear with no signs after equicast/soundhorse cuff-applications?

Glad it all worked out for ya.

Forget thinking outside the box, instead realize there is no box.
- Alicia Thompson

http://thompsonfarrierservice.com

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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 02:49 #26

irishcas OFFLINE Master Posts: 1708 Thank you received: 1 Karma: 0	mybluedanube wrote: Woo Hoo I get to be the judge!! lol Oh boy, there will be no talking to her now
	Kim Cassidy "I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 03:17 #27

Alicia Thompson OFFLINE Very Senior Member Posts: 775 Thank you received: 1 Karma: 0	irishcas wrote: Oh boy, there will be no talking to her now Yup it's already gone to my head.
	Forget thinking outside the box, instead realize there is no box. - Alicia Thompson http://thompsonfarrierservice.com The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 11:45 #28

solidrockshoer
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Peters Shoeing wrote:

To confirm, the horse had an abscess blow-out before I came to service the horse ever. I came and helped treat the abscess, suggested shoes,

Hello Peter, why did you suggest shoes for a abscess?

Weeks pass. I come back for the trim. The hoof is laminitic. Now, the owner agrees to shoes.

Why do you want to put shoes on a laminitic horse? Heart Bars maybe?

Horse walked off like the pain was never there, trotting fine. Owner was happy.

Can you explain why the laminitic horse miraculously walked off sound? Why was a laminitic horse trotting?

End result: I cut a slit into the sole, we poulticed it. Abscess emerged. Horse is much better. The equicast is still on too. All in all, not a bad ending.

What do you mean you cut a slit in the sole and an abcess emerged after poulticing?

Now, my question is...how many of you go digging into the hoof to expose an abscess? If I find no signs, I like to leave it to the vet. I really only do it if it is obvious. How about you guys?

I don't just dig into feet. If I suspect an abcess I will check to see if there is a track somewhere or if I'm positive it's an absess I will remove a small portion of sole to see. If I don't know the difference between an abscess and laminitis I will treat it as laminitis. If I have no idea what's going on I tell the owner to call the vet. For an abscess or sore foot it's kind of a waste of time to call the vet and farrier because they're both going to do and say the same thing.

Another question: Has anyone else had an abscess appear with no signs after equicast/soundhorse cuff-applications?

Nope

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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 13:15 #29

Peters Shoeing
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Eric Russell;218064 wrote:

Hello Peter, why did you suggest shoes for a abscess?

Hello, Eric, my first name is Alan, guess you were too busy finding problems with my post to notice my signature. I suggested a straight bar for this horse to distribute weight as much as possible on the ground surface. My thinking was this would protect the hoof material that was growing out from the portion of the coronary band where the abcess blew and prevent a quarter crack from forming

Why do you want to put shoes on a laminitic horse? Heart Bars maybe?

Once the situation seemed to progress from an abcess to possible laminitis I did think about a heart bar. I settled on a straight bar with equipak because the horse was flat footed and I was afraid of too much frog pressure

Can you explain why the laminitic horse miraculously walked off sound? Why was a laminitic horse trotting?

She is flat footed and her sole was no longer smacking the ground with every step once a shoe was applied?????

What do you mean you cut a slit in the sole and an abcess emerged after poulticing?

I cut a slit into the sole of the equicast and then cut out a piece under the heel buttress to relieve pressure

I don't just dig into feet. If I suspect an abcess I will check to see if there is a track somewhere or if I'm positive it's an absess I will remove a small portion of sole to see. If I don't know the difference between an abscess and laminitis I will treat it as laminitis. If I have no idea what's going on I tell the owner to call the vet. For an abscess or sore foot it's kind of a waste of time to call the vet and farrier because they're both going to do and say the same thing.

When you put aside your need to cross examine and pick people apart you can actually be quite informative. Thank you for your response

Alan Peters

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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 10 Nov 2010 17:23 #30

Peters Shoeing
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"Maybe. But I think others read or misread way too much regarding your "rotten" client and their suggestions that you needed to get rid of them."
She's not rotten. I can understand her opinion on sedatives. It's my problem for thinking I could handle it. I handled it, but maybe it wasnt the best decision I've ever made. Still, I can never impose or force my opinion of sedatives. No farrier should. We should just walk away.

"Now maybe you would have stepped up eventually and filled in the details that were left out or sketchy to begin with."
Nothing is sketchy. Didnt realize you needed a play by play to discuss abscesses and equicast. I provided as many details as I could remember when making the initial post. I think most people would agree.

Alan Peters

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