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TOPIC: Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix?

Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 08 Nov 2010 19:17 #1

  • Peters Shoeing
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I have a barefoot horse on my books that had just started recovering from an abscess blowout. Vet prescribed shoes and sole support, owner declined. A few weeks pass and I come for the trim. The horse is lame and looks laminitic, vet agreed. I glued on-shoe (1 nail on each side- vet's instructions). Horse wouldn't allow me to glue/pick up the other hoof much, so I did my best to glue it and casted with equicast. I was aiming for equi-pak on the sole to provide support, but the horse wouldnt have it. The owner did not want to use a sedative bc of risks it poses, so it was was borderline dangerous. Well, I got it on, horse went from completely lame to trotting comfortably immediately after. Advised stall rest, planned to follow-up in a few days.

Well, a couple days pass and I was going to come out and squeeze in some equipak, but the horse is lame again. The owner is suspecting an abscess again, says the coronary band is warm. I gotta ask, would equicast/soundhorse type-cuffing hinder an abscess from traveling out? Should the equicast come off? The owner does not want me to remove it. I am going to go out and inspect it, maybe make a small hole in the sole-side of the equicast and see if I can put some impression material or sil-pac in for extra support since (easy to remove if needed). The vet probably doesnt want me to drain the abscess since he was the one who did it the last time. What's your thoughts?

Should I go ahead with the impression material or sil-pac and tape it up, see where that puts us. Or, should everything be removed and tape up a lily-pad or frog pad since the equicast might be restricting prior to possible abscess blow-out?
Alan Peters
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 08 Nov 2010 20:51 #2

  • Ray_Knightley
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The hoof itself will stop an abcess coming out of the sole ...Really needs to be taken off and looked at!
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 00:55 #3

  • Alicia Thompson
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Peter you need to pick your clients better. lol
You seem to end up with all the hippies afraid/to cheap to treat their horses appropriately.

I have heard from barefooters that casts will bring abscesses to a head faster.... seems to me that it would just make it more painful as the excess pressure in the capsule is made worse by the cast limiting any and all flextion making each and every step more painful.

That is just how I see it no studies to back it up.

This client sucks - refuses to follow vet advice then limits you in how you can help the horse. I would say give her the option of shoes with a hospital plate so you can treat any abscess or walk away.

I personally would not jump to add sole support, frog support sure but I would not personally want to block up drainage access nor would I want to apply external pressure to an area sore from excess internal pressure.
my 2 cents
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 02:08 #4

  • irishcas
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mybluedanube wrote:
I have heard from barefooters that casts will bring abscesses to a head faster.... seems to me that it would just make it more painful as the excess pressure in the capsule is made worse by the cast limiting any and all flextion making each and every step more painful.

I haven't heard that one but who knows. I have used the Equicasts on many horses and haven't had them cause abscesses. I guess if they were applied incorrectly you could cause damage but I'm assuming Peter hasn't done that.

I have found lamintic horses can sometimes find the Equipak to be too firm of pressure on the sole. I like the impression material for that purpose and don't use it at the tip of the coffin bone, but for support of the back of the foot.

What I have found with the Equicasts is that some horses can't even stand that sole pressure. I would definitely take it off and see if the horse improves. If it doesn't you'll know that you didn't do it :)
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 02:52 #5

  • Alicia Thompson
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Maybe I read it wrong but I hought Peter's horse already had the abscess, and thought maybe there was a re-occurrence. I don't imagine anyone would think casts cause abscesses.
Forget thinking outside the box, instead realize there is no box.
- Alicia Thompson


http://thompsonfarrierservice.com
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 08:09 #6

  • cuttinshoer
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The owner is unwilling to help you and has been unwilling to follow the vets instructions. I would tell her that the vet needs to be involved and a definite diagnosis made before your willing to procede to avoid further problems. Don't admit anything you have done could have caused the problem because it sounds as if you don't even know what the problems is for sure. Abcesses blow out at the coronary band, you don't have it covered do you.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 12:50 #7

  • chris bunting
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as i see it, if you have clients like that ,get rid
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 14:03 #8

  • cuttinshoer
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DeniseMc wrote:
Seems the general knee-jerk consensus here is to "dump the bad client". Sounds like a vet is/was involved. (vet drained abscessed initially; vet "agrees" horse looks laminitic). And if the owner was unwilling/unable to follow vets advice of shoes/sole support just what in the heck was this farrier doing nailing /glueing a shoe on? Was this against the owners wishes?? Or maybe the owner is sensing the lack of confidence in Peter's shoeing skills and his hesitation of knowing what the right thing is..
So the owner did not want the horse sedated because of possible "risks". Maybe the horse possibly had a bad reaction to sedation in the past?--it does happen.
And why is it assumed the hoof with the equicast is the problem hoof? Sounds to me like there was a problem with the other hoof when shoes were being applied. How many horses fight you when you are working on the "problem" hoof? How many fight you when they are forced to stand on the problem hoof while you work on the "good" hoof? Yes, it's possible the equicast hoof is the problem and is re-abscessing but why did the horse fight so much when it was held up and being worked on?

Hence my reasoning for getting the vet reinvolved. It's not our job to diagnose problems when working with a vet.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 14:04 #9

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if the owner is not prepared to do as a vet prescibes then the farrier should not do the horse . the issue of what is right or wrong is of no consequence if an owner is not prepared to listen
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 14:14 #10

chris bunting wrote:
if the owner is not prepared to do as a vet prescibes then the farrier should not do the horse . the issue of what is right or wrong is of no consequence if an owner is not prepared to listen
chris

Chris is 100% correct. Plus, if things go west, you'll be amazed at how fast a $200 pet can turn into a $15000 breeding prospect. ( That would be 100 shoeings, by the way )

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 14:30 #11

  • chris bunting
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what rubbish . the owner has overruled the professional imput , forget the ethical hogwash , tell them to get stuffed and walk away , you are in the business to provide for you and your family needs not some poxy tree hugger who doesnt care two hoots for anything else other than their ****** egotistical dreamworld they have chosen to chase
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 14:57 #12

  • irishcas
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chris bunting wrote:
what rubbish . the owner has overruled the professional imput , forget the ethical hogwash , tell them to get stuffed and walk away , you are in the business to provide for you and your family needs not some poxy tree hugger who doesnt care two hoots for anything else other than their ****** egotistical dreamworld they have chosen to chase
chris

Wow that is a lot of judgement from someone just reading an internet post.

I hire professionals to give me their OPINION, whether I listen to them or not is my judgement call. I certainly don't think anyone that has a title after their name is infallible.

I recently saw an MD about an elbow issue, he immediately recommended surgery. Instead of going directly under the knife, I've been doing research and have sought two other opinions. It is our job to know our bodies and to know our animals bodies and health. Sadly not everyone functions that way, but I try to give every owner the benefit of the doubt and desire them to play an important decision making role in the healthcare.

That being said

I would prefer a vet be on hand to tranq the horse so I can easily do my job correctly on both feet. The job performed is based on a discussion between the owner and myself and if a vet is involved the vet as well. If the owner makes their own decision about the animal they care for, I'll do it as long as it doesn't go against my moral code.

Just to be clear I don't see anywhere in Peter's post where he is asking if he should fire the client. He is asking if Equicast could cause an abscess, is it that impossible for some of you to stay on topic and not get all frothy?
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 15:08 #13

  • chris bunting
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kim you say you would like the horse doped , the owner says no , the farrier says he would like to remove the cast , the owner says no , the poor farrier is beating his head against a brickwall , when you have ignorant owners who will not accept advice they are not worth the risk of working for , you can almost guarantee these are the ones who send the writs , they have the knack of passing the buck .
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 16:04 #14

  • Ray_Knightley
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Western Hill Forge wrote:
Chris is 100% correct. Plus, if things go west, you'll be amazed at how fast a $200 pet can turn into a $15000 breeding prospect. ( That would be 100 shoeings, by the way )

Regards

That the boil down here As far As i can Read !!!!!
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RE:Equicast and Abscess, a bad mix? 09 Nov 2010 16:14 #15

  • irishcas
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chris bunting wrote:
kim you say you would like the horse doped , the owner says no , the farrier says he would like to remove the cast , the owner says no , the poor farrier is beating his head against a brickwall , when you have ignorant owners who will not accept advice they are not worth the risk of working for , you can almost guarantee these are the ones who send the writs , they have the knack of passing the buck .
chris

I say I'd like tranq but if the owner doesn't want it, that is there prerogative. It is then my choice whether I choose to continue or not. Again, depends on many things.

I can understand where you are coming from but the age old adage "The Customer is Always Right" comes into play. Who knows, maybe the horse reacts violently to drugs and the owner is aware of this and it hasn't been communicated to us thru Peter.

My point being the reaction by some is a typical one. It seems that a prevailing attitude by some is that the Farrier is always right and the owners are fecking *****s. Whom should shut up and do as the farrier says. I for one, don't care for that attitude and was bringing that up in a polite way :)
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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