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TOPIC: Talk me out of this cure

Talk me out of this cure 23 Aug 2010 13:17 #1

I had a vision about a cure for WLD and need talked out of it. It seems that everything has been tried to avoid resection but what about this?

It seems like WLD feeds itself because once the space between the hoof wall and the hoof spreads - dirt, moisture, and bacteria constantly get packed in the space the problem worsens.

What if we white lightning the crack and then boot until it dries out. Then when it's dry, mix a hot batch of boat builder's epoxy and pour it into the empty and disinfected space and duct tape until it sets. Boat builder's epoxy is made to be absorbed into porous spaces in wood and I think it should fill all the open space that has been inhabited by the WLD organism. In the absence of oxygen, dirt and/or mud the organism should die. The epoxy will also hold the hoof wall to the hoof and simulate a healthy white line.

Has anyone ever tried this? Comments before I try this on a horse with a mild case of WLD?

Tim
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 23 Aug 2010 13:50 #2

  • SlowShoe
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standingo wrote:
then boot until it dries out.

Bad Idea. Its hard to keep a boot clean on the foot side, it traps matial and moisture.
Boat builder's epoxy is made to be absorbed into porous spaces in wood and I think it should fill all the open space that has been inhabited by the WLD organism. In the absence of oxygen, dirt and/or mud the organism should die.

Your theory is wrong. The bacteria that causes white line disease actually thrives in an anaerobic environment. One without oxygen. Exposure to oxygen is what kills it. This woul only be a viable option if the WLD was completely eradicated.

I wouldnt fill the area with epoxy, as epoxy generally hardens petty hard with no flex. So trapping a very hard inflexable material between the hoof wall and inner structures of the hoof could cause some mystery lameness.

Best of luck Tim.

-Josh
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 23 Aug 2010 15:15 #3

What about a type of silicone?

Boat builder's epoxy is designed to be flexible enough for a plywood boat to flex without cracking. If it was too hard it would crack on long unsupported lengths of the boat.

I'm thinking of just booting in a dry area until the white lightning dries, and then applying the epoxy. Do we believe the white lightning or other antiseptic kills the WLD but later it comes back? If a good soaking in white lightning kills the WLD, then epoxy or silicone should seal it from further dirt/manure/moisture/bacteria.

I haven't researched it yet, but do we know if WLD is a bacteria, fungus, or ????

Tim
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 23 Aug 2010 15:38 #4

  • chris bunting
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josh has just told you why not to do it and you asked to be talked out of doing it surely thats it ?
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 23 Aug 2010 17:46 #5

  • mwmyersdvm
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Trying to reinvent a wheel is often fraught with failure. This procedure has been tried by many and usually ends in a disaster. It is as impossible to clean out the tiny depths of the disconnected hoof wall as it is to drain a large abscess completely through a small needle hole. To be honest it would be easier to clean out the abscess as it would not have as many 'nooks and crannies' to hide minute areas of debris and bacteria.

There is no easy and quick way out of long standing WLD. If it tooks weeks to months to get this way, why would you expect to cure it in a few days?

If you need to resect and then stabilize the missing portion of the hoof wall, there are plenty of ways to do that and maintain a way to clean the area as it heals. Yep, it will take some work and persistence from the owner, but they need to know this. If they need it handled for them then they need to pay someone to do it. Works the same way in human medicine with home care services.

Simply put, trying this will extend the treatment, not shorten it.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 23 Aug 2010 20:44 #6

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Tim, I see this is your first Post. Welcome to the forum! Engage in the discussion!

-josh
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 23 Aug 2010 21:04 #7

  • reillyshoe
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I often resect the detached hoof, but I am extremely reluctant to apply any bonding adhesive to the underlying tissue. Filling this in might look better, but the exotherm from the adhesive as well as the risk of infection make it (in my opinion) a bad risk.
I do pack low density silicone foam in the area, and then rebuild the area with a structural fabric saturated with an acrylic adhesive. The foam can be impregnated with anti-microbial agents and the rebuilt hoof stays cleaner than if left open. The repair seems to provide some structure to the compromised integrity of the hoof.
P
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 24 Aug 2010 07:23 #8

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reillyshoe wrote:
I do pack low density silicone foam in the area, and then rebuild the area with a structural fabric saturated with an acrylic adhesive. The foam can be impregnated with anti-microbial agents and the rebuilt hoof stays cleaner than if left open. The repair seems to provide some structure to the compromised integrity of the hoof.

I think Pat is trying to say Impression Material and Copper Sulfate is your friend! :)
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 24 Aug 2010 09:50 #9

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I think impression material is too hard for this application. The foam I am using is much less dense. It is also an open celled foam, and this allows it to breakdown under repetitive loading.
P
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 24 Aug 2010 14:19 #10

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reillyshoe wrote:
I think impression material is too hard for this application. The foam I am using is much less dense. It is also an open celled foam, and this allows it to breakdown under repetitive loading.

Yeah? So you mean an actual sheet of foam? Are you worried about it trapping moisture?
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 25 Aug 2010 00:28 #11

  • Peters Shoeing
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More about this foam please. What brand per say? Any pics? Sounds like a cool app.
Alan Peters
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 25 Aug 2010 11:55 #12

Have used Sigafoos glueons on many horses with feet falling apart as described. Just did one a couple of weeks ago, separation was deep and filled with grit and bacteria. Cleaned the feet up have the owner do a Whitelightning soak in the morning and keep the feet dry and clean apply the shoes later in the day after they are dry. I find the Whitelightning soak works very well. I like the idea of getting some structural integrity back into the feet with the glueons, but they need to be clean and the Whitelightning gets up into those hard to reach nooks and crannys. Helps if the owner can keep the horse out of mud and the stalls are clean.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 26 Aug 2010 10:49 #13

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Peters Shoeing wrote:
More about this foam please. What brand per say? Any pics? Sounds like a cool app.

I buy this foam in the pre-polymerized form. This allows me to mix in whatever drying agent/ antiseptic I would like. It sets up in about a minute (without a noticeable exotherm). I bought it for a different application, but it seems to work well for this. When set, it is about as dense as the blue Vettec foam boards (which I have also cut up and used for this application). As they are open celled foams, they will crush under repeated force, and this helps to eliminate pressure points under the repair.
I'll post a picture later on.
P
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 26 Aug 2010 10:55 #14

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I've posted these before, but here is a repair using the Vettec foam board and a carbon fiber fabric saturated with an acrylic adhesive:





P
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RE:Talk me out of this cure 27 Aug 2010 05:32 #15

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Pat did you sand down the Carbon Fiber when you were done, or was it molded with cellophane just like that?
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