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TOPIC: Why !!?!?

RE:Why !!?!? 19 Aug 2010 02:00 #16

  • caballus
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handmade pride wrote:
Gwen, I would agree that she has a ways to go but she must be moving at least a little better with the roller motion feet. I would just add that maybe you should stick with the rasp next time and wait on the angle grinder.
Yeah, think I'll stick with the rasp for awhile! *GRIN* Thanks. She did take off rather nicely after getting released -- seemed quite perky and moved out rather well.

Elizabeth81 wrote:
Here are some rads of a standard donkey I did a few months ago.
Thanks, Lori -- that helps! :)

Travis Reed wrote:
Gwen I think I know that lady that owns them donks..I stop by one day and asked if she needed me to trim them and she said no that she read on the net about the advantages of barefoot and the mustang roll and it said they would self trim if no grain was feed and just turn them loose like in the wild and nature will do the work...lol.. I will give her a call and tell her she did not even give them enough time to self trim and the hoofters was not gonna be happy...lol
hahahaha ... yeah, well, .....
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
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RE:Why !!?!? 19 Aug 2010 18:08 #17

  • irishcas
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Lori:

Do you have radiographs after the trim? Good job for both you and Gwen.

Yes more could have been taken, but it didn't get that way overnight, so letting her adjust and going back is always a fine idea :)
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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RE:Why !!?!? 19 Aug 2010 19:51 #18

  • Lori McBride
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Do you have radio graphs after the trim?

Hi Kim,
The bottom rad should be after the trim was almost done, if I remember right, I took a little more off after the second shot was taken. I think the reason it is flipped is due to the "interesting way" we had to position the donk to get them to begin with. Pretty nice guy really, but you go for his feet and look out he is going try and kill you!! Of course that could be because they've been hurting for so long. :rolleyes:
Good job for both you and Gwen.

Thanks!! :) It was certainly a good feeling to see him trot off, the rescue hadn't seen him do more that a slow shuffle since he had arrived.
Lori McBride CF
McBride Horseshoeing

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Don't follow where the path may lead...........go where there is no path and leave a trail.
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RE:Why !!?!? 19 Aug 2010 21:23 #19

  • Jack Evers
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Of course that could be because they've been hurting for so long.


You know, I've often wondered on some of my really bad feet cases - Are they a PITA because of the feet hurting or are the feet bad because of their attitude. I suspect the answer depends on individuals.

Last horse that I did on the ground (many years ago) had been purchased at killer price by a local horse trader because he was foundered on the rear. Trader called me to ask if they ever foundered only on the rear - I said not to my knowledge. He wanted me to shoe the horse so he could make a bit more money by getting him under saddle.

Front feet went fine. As I reached for a hind, I found out what the problem was I scotched him, he fought and fell down, I tied him down and shod the rears, but knew what the problem was. Trader gave up a week later and sent him on to the killer plant.

Since then, when a similar case arises, I just tell folks that the last horse I did lying on the ground went to the killers with nearly new shoes. He wasn't worth shoeing. Train him, then call me. If he's untrainable, don't call me.

I'm not talking about difficult, I'm talking about one that really fights.
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
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RE:Why !!?!? 20 Aug 2010 11:44 #20

i have worked on at least a dozen miniature ponies and miniature donkeys that have had feet that looked like these. the animals are never very bad, its just lack of care. so when i do get one to work on, i just look at what is there and i have a picture in my mind what the foot should like like, and go to nipping away everything that should not be there. i take them down all at one shot, although i do like the idea of trimming twice in a one week period.
Nathaniel Crumley


"the only regrets in life are the risks you don't take"
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RE:Why !!?!? 20 Aug 2010 20:54 #21

  • chris bunting
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the omly reason people do not do the job in one go is trimmers tiredness ,lazy person syndrome etc .
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:Why !!?!? 21 Aug 2010 14:18 #22

  • mwmyersdvm
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Travis Reed wrote:
Gwen I think I know that lady that owns them donks..I stop by one day and asked if she needed me to trim them and she said no that she read on the net about the advantages of barefoot and the mustang roll and it said they would self trim if no grain was feed and just turn them loose like in the wild and nature will do the work...lol.. I will give her a call and tell her she did not even give them enough time to self trim and the hoofters was not gonna be happy...lol

I know your frustration with these 'natural' people. They have absolutley no understanding of how nature works. The animals they are trying to treat as 'natural' would actually be fodder for predators in the wild state. There are no laminitic or other serious lamenesses ( or bad teeth, colic, etc.) in the wild because those horses (or donkeys) that fall victim to these maladies also fall victim to predators that then take them out of the gene pool. This is the way of nature.

I usually get a select few of these people to think when they profess to their 'natural ways' by then looking around the area until they ask what I am looking for. I reply, "Where is your pet cougar?" They wonder why I would ask such a question and then I give them the explanation as to why they do not see lame equids in nature. Nature cannot be expected to heal catastrophic injuries. Prey animals evolved to be eaten by predators, not ridden by humans. This is the "natural way". If they cannot maintain themselves without human intervention of any type (including 'natural trims') then the situation is automatically (or by definition) unnatural. Some consider the statement, others simply get angry as their bubble has burst. Either way, I usually don't have to hear about their idea of the marvelous atributes of natural horsekeeping further.

I would say that "natural horsekeeping" needs a better title as does "live sole plane". They have come into general use, but really don't truly define what we are referring to, thus often stirring up more controversy and misunderstanding than is needed..

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:Why !!?!? 21 Aug 2010 16:43 #23

Well said Dr. Myers.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:Why !!?!? 21 Aug 2010 18:53 #24

mwmyersdvm wrote:
I know your frustration with these 'natural' people. They have absolutley no understanding of how nature works. The animals they are trying to treat as 'natural' would actually be fodder for predators in the wild state. There are no laminitic or other serious lamenesses ( or bad teeth, colic, etc.) in the wild because those horses (or donkeys) that fall victim to these maladies also fall victim to predators that then take them out of the gene pool. This is the way of nature.

I usually get a select few of these people to think when they profess to their 'natural ways' by then looking around the area until they ask what I am looking for. I reply, "Where is your pet cougar?" They wonder why I would ask such a question and then I give them the explanation as to why they do not see lame equids in nature. Nature cannot be expected to heal catastrophic injuries. Prey animals evolved to be eaten by predators, not ridden by humans. This is the "natural way". If they cannot maintain themselves without human intervention of any type (including 'natural trims') then the situation is automatically (or by definition) unnatural. Some consider the statement, others simply get angry as their bubble has burst. Either way, I usually don't have to hear about their idea of the marvelous atributes of natural horsekeeping further.

I would say that "natural horsekeeping" needs a better title as does "live sole plane". They have come into general use, but really don't truly define what we are referring to, thus often stirring up more controversy and misunderstanding than is needed..

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

Geesh Doc, if you help too many people use common sense, how the heck is a BSer going to make a living?
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Why !!?!? 21 Aug 2010 20:56 #25

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I agree with you,M Myers. With your permission,I add your answer in my "Answer against the barefoot book"
Gabino Fernández Baquero

www.farriergabino.com
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RE:Why !!?!? 22 Aug 2010 02:14 #26

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Gabino wrote:
I agree with you,M Myers. With your permission,I add your answer in my "Answer against the barefoot book"

Do feel free to quote me on that, Gabino. This is my basic answer to anyone that misuses barefoot trimming to the detriment of the horse. There are plenty of horses that can be barefoot, but there are those that need more and it is unfair to the horse to deprive them of appropriate comfort and mechanics to help them heal.

Can some people do a complete turnaround with a barefoot system? It can be done but is usually far too much intensive care to get the average horse owner to comply with the horse's needs. Even some that would like to try simply do not have the time or the skills to accomplish it. Some boarding situations do not provide the appropriate turnout and diet for it to work either.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:Why !!?!? 22 Aug 2010 09:45 #27

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Many times,many guys only need to get a bit of the rope for self be gallows. One of these guys,she comments in youtube like LaranaTJ writes on their website things about that:

http://www.espiritu-del-viento.com/endurance-riding.html

""We completed a 40 kilometer introductory competition in 3 hours 25 minutes, barefoot. A very respectable 9th place out of 36 starters and 28 finishers. But most important of all - good to go on.

Chiclanera´s endurance career was only ever going to be short, but unfortunately it was bought to a close sooner when a completely unrelated ligament injury, 6 weeks later, took her to early retirement. Retirement from competition yes, but she will still happily, soundly, do a casual trek out of 50 to 60 km´s in a day! ""

The most of the owners,that don't know about endurance" applaud and say "OK,the barefoot is the final solution"

40 km in 3 h 25 mn is a velocity of 10 km/h more or less. Today sunday,a client of mine runs a 100 miles endurance competition in France.
The organization of the event hopes a media velocity of 20 or 21 km/h.

How T Stovall say in other thread,the problem is the duration of the exposure on the road. 10 km/ h is the velocity of the horse to gait.
Gabino Fernández Baquero

www.farriergabino.com
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RE:Why !!?!? 22 Aug 2010 14:03 #28

  • caballus
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Can some people do a complete turnaround with a barefoot system? It can be done but is usually far too much intensive care to get the average horse owner to comply with the horse's needs. Even some that would like to try simply do not have the time or the skills to accomplish it. Some boarding situations do not provide the appropriate turnout and diet for it to work either.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
Agree 100%. The two most outstanding remarks I italicized as the ones I most frequently encounter.
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
thepenzancehorse.com
barefoottrim.com
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RE:Why !!?!? 22 Aug 2010 14:38 #29

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chris bunting wrote:
the omly reason people do not do the job in one go is trimmers tiredness ,lazy person syndrome etc .
chris
I beg your pardon -- when one chooses to be 'macho' and 'prove' he/she can 'do the job in one go' when the horse or donkey has obviously had enough (in the situtaions of pathologies such as this one) then one does not have the horse/donkey's best interest first and foremost. Yeah, could've done it in one go but the donkey was more than stressed, we'd been working for awhile and it was obvious, to me, that to go any further would have caused the donkey to be extremely uncomfortable and unwilling to move. In order to heal, this little donkey needs to move. Why go past the point of no return with her and cause the opposite effect?

Would rather go back and finish up at a later time. Got nothing to do with laziness or tiredness but everything to do with the best interest of the DONKEY at that time.
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
thepenzancehorse.com
barefoottrim.com
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RE:Why !!?!? 22 Aug 2010 19:15 #30

  • mwmyersdvm
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10km/hr is less than 7mph which is an easy trot. Not too impressive.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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