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TOPIC: White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding

RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 02 Dec 2009 16:42 #16

  • Mark_Gough
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Bluescityfarrier wrote:
That sounds great Mark. What are your thoughts on the potential bruising of the medial wall causing repeat abscesses, because of the lack of new laminae growth?

Daniel,

Rick and I are in agreement as to general approach. I like his idea of eventually using an open toed heart bar to provide the needed caudal support and dorsal wall relief more than my own recommendation of a heavily rolled toe shoe. We are also in agreement that a shoe isn't appropriate right now and the horse needs a bandaged/taped/cast solution that provides caudal/solar support and as much capsule stability as possible.

If the ground force reaction forces could be balanced; the majority of distortion addressed and the capsule/foot stabilized; this would be an excellent candidate for casting. Unfortunately, you won't be able to cast the capsule until you can assure that the soft tissue issues are first addressed.

No, I don't think the lack of new laminae growth is causing the ongoing bruising and subsequent abscessing. I agree with Rick that said bruising is likely caused by distortion and imbalanced stress on the hoof wall and internal structures.

I need clarification on this horse. You indicated the problems we see in the foot are largely medial, suggesting the photos depict a right fore hoof. The xrays aren't marked, but to my eye, the photos appear to present a left fore foot with the problem areas appearing on the lateral, not the medial wall of that left fore. Just want to make sure we're getting our terminology correct. Is this a left fore foot?

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 03 Dec 2009 14:43 #17

  • mwmyersdvm
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Ray_Knightley wrote:
I think a knife would be better or do those maggots have head collers on ,my thoughts would be that they would start on healthy lamini or at least the rotten stuff would be dragged about with them to unwanted places ..

Do you have any photos of the hoof ,the xrays sure look really bad,I would think its a case of how quick a healthy hoof with help can grow round that bone as best as can and if the horse can stand on it ...In that case with open eyes the horse may have a chance..


Actually thee maggots strongly prefer devitalized tissue to normal tissue so this is not a problem, so they can get much smaller amounts of devitalized tissue and leave living tissue undisturbed far better than a knife.

M.W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 03 Dec 2009 14:53 #18

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A very important point to address is to unload the deep flexor tendon to improve overall hoof blood flow. Then unload the peripheral wall to stop pull on the laminae all around this hoof. The PLR shoes are good for this. I would suggest a rockered PLR with Equibuild pour in from the center of the hoof caudally allowing it to flow up and support the heel in a 'buttress pad' fashion. This is about the maximal support and relief shoeing package I have used with good success. Equibuild simply distributes pressure more evenly than heart bars as the horse's stance while the Equibuild sets works with you on weight distribution, no guessing like you need to do with a heart bar. Equibuild also adheres tightly to the sole and stabilizes wall from beneath, unlike a heart bar which may favor expansion under load and you don't need that at the moment.
You also need to remove the 'dish' on the wall over the pillar as this can impede blood flow when the hoof loads. Once everything is cleaned and ready for shoe application, you may want to consider a cast for added support. After you apply the cast and shoe, cut out the cast heel to prevent constriction and be prepared to reset the package in three to four weeks. Create any openings that may need to drain in the cast with some plastic tubing as you go. It will be a relatively complex package, but should give you some real help here.
Medial bone loss is always a severe problem as there is a bit more load medially. I do have a horse in work that lost a third of his coffin bone on his right hind, but it is lateral.
Do send the venogram images when they are available.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 03 Dec 2009 20:26 #19

  • Ray_Knightley
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mwmyersdvm wrote:
Actually thee maggots strongly prefer devitalized tissue to normal tissue so this is not a problem, so they can get much smaller amounts of devitalized tissue and leave living tissue undisturbed far better than a knife.

M.W. Myers, D.V.M.

I can undersand this ,but would this not be a thing that would take too long and increase the time to get to a point where the healing can start ...Or is this a method that is only used on hooves ...sounds a bit like rainforest cure ,or is it in wide use?
And would not a clear resection be better or why would Maggots be used??
Is it because in this case the damage was so far gone that a operation was not possible??
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 06 Dec 2009 01:57 #20

  • Guy_Buck
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Daniel, The next time you go see this guy give me a call. I would love to see it up close, don't want to shoe it, lol, just would like to look.

Guy
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 08 Dec 2009 13:11 #21

  • Katy Watts
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Ray_Knightley wrote:
...Or is this a method that is only used on hooves ...sounds a bit like rainforest cure ,or is it in wide use?

Ray,
Sterile maggots are used by the most informed experts. They are very expensive, and in no way considered folk medicine. Since they only eat dead tissue they can be far more selective than a knife. When all the dead tissue is gone, they starve and die.

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/geneva/2007/p210_212_Morrison.pdf

Katy
Are you feeding your horse like a cow?
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 08 Dec 2009 17:16 #22

  • Ray_Knightley
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Katy Watts wrote:
Ray,
Sterile maggots are used by the most informed experts. They are very expensive, and in no way considered folk medicine. Since they only eat dead tissue they can be far more selective than a knife. When all the dead tissue is gone, they starve and die.

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/geneva/2007/p210_212_Morrison.pdf

Katy

Thanks for that information ....I had a situation in Suriname where I had a very bad side effect from the malaria Tablets And heat ...my legs looked like steak ...Lots of very small flies would gather and start to feast on my open legs ...they whare about the size of fruit flies ...at first I was not happy ,but after a day or two it was easy to see that they where cleaning up all the effected areas and it all started to heal ....That was the reason for my rainforest cure before ...But if that hoof was resectioned correctly from the start I would have thought it would be better ...

Thanks for the info I have now become an imformed expert now:p

Just hope it does not fall into the wrong hands:D
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 17 Dec 2009 00:21 #23

I went out to look at Fortune yesterday. The vet meet me there to do a venogram. When we unwrapped his hoof there was another abscess the had been draining, so we put the dye in the open cavity. We were very pleased at what information we received. The medial wing of coffin bone had more bone left than previously thought. I was able to resect more of the wall and get all detached laminie removed. I was very pleased at this point. I got him trimmed up taking the lateral flare off putting him in a Morrison rolled toe shoe with clips and impression material. Finishing the job I was dressing the dorsal wall when I found another abscess pocket in the lateral toe side. I am posting a picture. I resected a big area theat I feel would go on forever. I am thinking of a full hoof wall reaction and the clean tracts. Please give me your input. The next step is to put him down if we cant get the infection under control.
Daniel Bishop
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 26 Dec 2009 22:59 #24

  • Jaye Perry
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Bluescityfarrier.....Please give me your input. The next step is to put him down if we cant get the infection under control.
Daniel Bishop


Regional perfusion of antibiotics 3 days in a row with assoiciated injections of antibiotics. A dry wrap of betadine and uniprim for 5 days. Don't forget the Yogurt:)

Think aggresive treatment and osmosis...........
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 28 Dec 2009 10:56 #25

  • cynthia-jay
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That is alot of work on this guy

my question is "why" was it not addressed properly before getting to this point?

I am in agreement with Rick, "best to balance the hoof" first as well as the other 3

then recomend a shoeing/wrap/proto call/treatment

best of luck and would like to see the follow up

Cynthia:)
Cynthia Jay
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shoot first, ask questions later, dead men tell no tails, nor do they tie up the legal system or jails
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The Last of the Mohicans

Kid Rock - Warrior (Lyrics)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHzSBEVbXtM
[url]...
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 07 Jan 2010 00:11 #26

Well, the horse is doing much better. We contacted Rood and Riddle, and they said that the Vet and myself have done more than they would have done for him. The next step was to try a antbiotic paste that they gave the Vet. Ten days late the paste has worked wonders to our suprise. He is getting daily turnout and is felling pretty good. Thank You for your input. Hope all have a great 2010.

Daniel Bishop
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 11 Jan 2010 20:05 #27

  • Gabino
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Daniel, this is a magistral formula very common and effective, preceding the Animalintex. It take out the pus and infection.I don't know the English name. In Spanish is named "empuchada"

1/2 liter of the hot water.

10 gramos of potasic permanganatum (MnO4K )

Bran ad libitum.

You mix and you put in a hoof. Renew each two days during one week.
Gabino Fernández Baquero

www.farriergabino.com
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 16 Jan 2010 17:04 #28

  • cynthia-jay
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Gambino

You always come in around First place on my list with some of the most interesting cases and formulas

Clinicals, Call yourself a Farrier+

I never witness as much cause we were taught hoof quality and pets before US:D

This man is probably part DVM:D

It pays to be poor, you get real handy quick

as in it pays to stay in and mind your own business

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGwh_h4RmGM

MSU Vet assistance apply to Doc Barkham...#number duo won't du over

Luv ya 2 zimbonie
Cynthia Jay
Horseshoer
P.F.E.
shoot first, ask questions later, dead men tell no tails, nor do they tie up the legal system or jails
Ray Jay
The Last of the Mohicans

Kid Rock - Warrior (Lyrics)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHzSBEVbXtM
[url]...
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RE:White Line Bone Damage 18 year old Warmbld Gelding 16 Jan 2010 21:07 #29

Thank you Gabino, will keep it mind for another case down the road. Just reshod this guy yesterday , and was very pleased with the condition of his hooves. The infection is under control with the treatment that he has undergone for the last four weeks. Will have new pics up after the next shoe job.
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