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TOPIC: Caudal Heel Pain

Caudal Heel Pain 29 Sep 2009 19:55 #1

  • Jaye Perry
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Caudal Heel Pain comes from different trauma and or injury. The terms of Syndrome and "back of the foot pain" are interchangeable in some camps.

So some vid, rads and pics to convey my point of Pawing can create inflamed coffin joint which in turn can be palpated with hoof testers and be considered "Caudal Heel Pain".

Two different horses with different "Husbandry":

First horse which had been diagnosed with "back of the foot pain" with hoof testing, flexions and blocks by a competent vet. This horse is expected to perform each month for 2-3 weeks in a row.

The horse prior to the vid had lost 3 shoes on the left fore in one cycle. IMO, an indication of a problem is brewing . Thus lameness became apparent in the LF as predicted.

In the vid the horse will be adamant about "Pawing"! The RF is the visible leg that is receiving the "Trauma", but the LF is the lame leg. At the end of the vid the horse the LF comes into play but never touches the ground because of the pain/lameness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO6_YjsjYgo

Due to the work regime the coffin joint was injected to reduce inflammation caused by "pawing". Same eggbars were applied back with the exception of a more Rocked toe to deflect toe at impact from pawing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMxE52ghE3U


The Second Horse is an advid "Pawer" also with a simular workload but competition is every other month. At the second shoeing recommendation of small wedge pads to be applied to the front. Significant change in way of going and foot integrity was achieved over time. recently, after 6 cycles lameness became apparent in the LF, the Pawing leg.
The previous application of a 1 bar wedge sufficed but x-rays revealed that it was not enough for that foot:



To properly align the coffin joint a rad w/o the shoes were taken:




Thus the resultant shoeing was the application of a #2 bar wedge to re-align the joint and a rocked toe to deflect the trauma of "Pawing". No injections at this time because of an off month in workload:





Two different horses with a bad habit; time will tell if both protocols work. See Rooney's "Third Order Acceleration" , vibration and osillation writings for reference.
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RE:Caudal Heel Pain 29 Sep 2009 21:43 #2

  • lonestar
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Great post. I have been making the argument to many horse owners, prof's,etc that a horse that paws {like the one in your video} is not a horse that will stay sound very long. It seems to me a simple concept but often falls on def ears. I have multiple horses I work on regularly that behave exactly as yours dose are diagnosed just like yours and subsequently are shod very similar if not the same.
Chris Schaeffner
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RE:Caudal Heel Pain 29 Sep 2009 22:04 #3

  • Jaye Perry
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lonestar-Great post. ......diagnosed just like yours and subsequently are shod very similar if not the same

Thanks! We have a simular tutilage in which WE learned to be very observatant and assimulate actions of the horse:);)
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RE:Caudal Heel Pain 30 Sep 2009 01:42 #4

  • chad rice
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Mr. Perry, do you believe that these horses have a neurologic issue that causes them to paw, or is it a learned behavior from confinement?

The other question I have is do you think this is something that is breed specific? I mainly work on foundation type qt horses like rodeo horses. I have picked up a few low end hunters and dressage horses, and they seem to be all together different.

This is very interesting, and your knowledgable info is appreciated.

Thanks, Chad
Chad Rice, CF
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RE:Caudal Heel Pain 30 Sep 2009 03:09 #5

  • Travis Reed
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Jaye I to have many questions as the others do… I have 2 in my care that are low mileage horses that paw if in the rack or on the mats.. I have chalked it up to a young horse bored in the cross ties. Like I said they are just started under saddle and no foot pain as of YET… you have opened my eyes to maybe its something I should not just pass off… is there something we should be doing to head off the possibility of a sore foot due to pawing.

Chad I find in my works of day to day the pawers seem to be hunters and such…but I do very little cow ponies and the ones I do are on 24hr turn out and the others are in during the day to keep the coat from turning due to the sun… so I wonder if it’s the husbandry or breed as you refer to…..

……..btw I am loving the new format .. Ask questions all you want but if someone is to refute the posted protocol …pics and evidence will be needed to prove your point of view …the ones as myself cant help but to learn from this new format… its good stuff
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Caudal Heel Pain 30 Sep 2009 09:10 #6

  • Jaye Perry
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chad rice wrote:
Mr. Perry, do you believe that these horses have a neurologic issue that causes them to paw, or is it a learned behavior from confinement?

The other question I have is do you think this is something that is breed specific? I mainly work on foundation type qt horses like rodeo horses. I have picked up a few low end hunters and dressage horses, and they seem to be all together different.

This is very interesting, and your knowledgable info is appreciated.

Thanks, Chad

learned, maybe. nerologic no. not breed specific. One case I worked on had "pawed" both fronts to the blood while on a trailer. The horse was barefooted.
somewhere I have rads of a 4 year old that mechanically foundered himself by pawing- PPE rads and 3 months later; will find and post up
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RE:Caudal Heel Pain 30 Sep 2009 09:18 #7

  • Jaye Perry
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Travis Reed-Jaye I to have many questions as the others do… I have 2 in my care that are low mileage horses that paw if in the rack or on the mats.. I have chalked it up to a young horse bored in the cross ties. Like I said they are just started under saddle and no foot pain as of YET… you have opened my eyes to maybe its something I should not just pass off… is there something we should be doing to head off the possibility of a sore foot due to pawing.
...............


As a empirical test, palpate the medial toes with hoof testers; some farriers/vets mistake the pain response with medial toe nails but it's the microscopic tearing of the laminae in that area of the foot by repeated trauma of "pawing" IMEs.
A slight to moderate rocker and or rim pad to the shoes helps.
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RE:Caudal Heel Pain 30 Sep 2009 19:21 #8

  • calshoer
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Jaye, do you perhaps have a photo of the sole view of the second horses foot trimmed but without the shoe set on yet?
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:Caudal Heel Pain 30 Sep 2009 22:21 #9

  • Jaye Perry
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calshoer wrote:
Jaye, do you perhaps have a photo of the sole view of the second horses foot trimmed but without the shoe set on yet?

nope...not that day
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RE:Caudal Heel Pain 01 Oct 2009 00:18 #10

  • chad rice
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Thanks Mr. Jaye I think I have over looked this issue in the past. Kind of like Travis I just assumed it was a bored or spoiled horse waiting on his alfalfa cube. I wondered if it was breed specific because of the difference in blood temps maybe causing more energy.


I agree with Travis about the new format, it is a great way from some of us with less experience to learn without all the arguments.

Thanks, Chad
Chad Rice, CF
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