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TOPIC: your thoughts on these x rays

RE:your thoughts on these x rays 10 Jul 2009 07:50 #16

brian robertson wrote:
You might suggest to the owner to bed the trailer deep with slightly wet sawdust(1"-2"), re-do the styrofoam and drive slow and careful.

What he said. What more can you do given the circumstances?


Ronald Aalders
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 12 Jul 2009 21:15 #17

  • mwmyersdvm
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If the vet can put a lower limb cast on her with plenty of padding under the hoof, she will trailer pretty well. She should be cast about halfway up the cannon bone.

Nice trim.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 15 Jul 2009 02:07 #18

  • solidrockshoer
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
chad rice in gray

If the mare is that far away, and you are worried about maintience of the styro, would it be a possibility to get the vet to block the front feet so you could go ahead and shoe the horse.

I don't think you'd want to nail/glue/tape any kind of shoe/pad to the foot until the victim is stable, especially if she's trying to sink. Let her stabilize on top of the Styrofoam, then go from there. There are very few hard and fast rules in farriery, but this is one of 'em: Founders don't improve until the bony column is stable.

Tom how do you tell if their stable. I don't do very many founders so I'm just curious.
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 15 Jul 2009 11:20 #19

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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PerformanceHorseshoeing in gray

Tom how do you tell if their stable. I don't do very many founders so I'm just curious.

Stability in a founder is usually defined as the cessation of movement (rotation or sinking) of the bones within the hoof capsule. The most accurate means of determining stability is to compare chronologically sequential radiographs.

Or, as a friend of mine once said, "If you don't see the coffin bone after a week or so, they're probably stable." :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 16 Jul 2009 02:24 #20

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
chad rice in gray

If the mare is that far away, and you are worried about maintience of the styro, would it be a possibility to get the vet to block the front feet so you could go ahead and shoe the horse.

I don't think you'd want to nail/glue/tape any kind of shoe/pad to the foot until the victim is stable, especially if she's trying to sink. Let her stabilize on top of the Styrofoam, then go from there. There are very few hard and fast rules in farriery, but this is one of 'em: Founders don't improve until the bony column is stable.

Well said Tom. Wish I had one of my clients a few years ago on here asking questions and have this reply. Could not convince the Vet or owner to let the horse stabilize first with Styrofoam and focus on the cause. She was a sinker, no rotation, but P3 was close to penetrating the sole. Vet wanted the horse shod with frog support, owner was in a panic and agreed. Had the horse comfortable with styrofoam and everything went south after I put shoes on her. I suffered that foolishness and will not make that mistake again.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 16 Jul 2009 03:19 #21

I would put a properly placed heart bar shoe on there. I think that it would help a bunch. Getting pressure off the foot and put on the frog will help a bunch. It will help also with proper blood circulation. Thats my thoughts on it
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 16 Jul 2009 23:21 #22

  • Jay Mickle
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
"If you don't see the coffin bone after a week or so, they're probably stable." :)

Here is the horse that I put the clogs on and was doing well for a month.
Attachments:
Jay Mickle
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 17 Jul 2009 00:41 #23

  • dave murray
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That's a shame Jay , sometimes it dosen't matter what you do. i was thinking a clog was about the only thing i would afix to this mares feet at this time. is that a EDSS clog or one you made up?. this mare is going to the clinic tomorrow morning and i will be shoeing in the area in the afternoon so i hope to drop by and see how they made out.
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 17 Jul 2009 01:21 #24

  • Jay Mickle
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dave murray wrote:
That's a shame Jay , sometimes it dosen't matter what you do. i was thinking a clog was about the only thing i would afix to this mares feet at this time. is that a EDSS clog or one you made up?. this mare is going to the clinic tomorrow morning and i will be shoeing in the area in the afternoon so i hope to drop by and see how they made out.

Those were clogs that I made. http://horseshoes.com/forums/album.php?albumid=186 . It is hard to know if there ever is a right protocol for those that don't make it. We do what we can with the knowledge and skill that we possess but there are factors that are out of our control.
Jack Anderson the farrier at New Bolton Center in the 60s and early 70s told me that he figured that they probably sent as many out through the pearly gates as through the stone gates (at the entrance to NBC). Hopefully the success rate is a bit better today.
Jay Mickle
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 17 Jul 2009 02:34 #25

  • calshoer
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Jay ,even though we all have some that manage to crash despite the best efforts,(and that certainly looked like a 'best effort') I have a couple medical and mechanical questions.

What was the underlying cause of the laminitis?
Did you put IM under the clog to fill any part of the egg bar and load the frog/whole caudal foot ?
How was the horse's stance and footfall after the application,and did it need any rasping/adjustments on the bottom as to angle or breakover after it was applied?
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 17 Jul 2009 11:33 #26

  • Jay Mickle
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calshoer wrote:
What was the underlying cause of the laminitis?

I do not know the cause.

Did you put IM under the clog to fill any part of the egg bar and load the frog/whole caudal foot ?

IM under hoof from tip of frog back.

How was the horse's stance and footfall after the application,and did it need any rasping/adjustments on the bottom as to angle or breakover after it was applied?

Saw no reason to. Horses comfort level improved immediately and so did movement. Seemed that just the transfer of weight forward brought the roll of the clog into play.

This was the protocol chosen. We could have used wedges, domed impression material, banana shoes, etc.

http://horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10177
Jay Mickle
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 17 Jul 2009 20:39 #27

  • dave murray
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The vet called me this morning and said. good news, i took digital x rays and there is no rotation and she is not a sinker. said she is not lame enough to be a sinker. is going to send a disk of the xrays back with the horse. he wants me to shoe her with a seated out (sole surface) rocker toe shoe with equi-pac or soleguard in the whole foot. but not to fill it to ground level. this should be fun as when i changed the foam on her she could barely stand on one long enough to get the foam on the other. i will follow his RX to the letter and get some pictures when i shoe her . will also post his xrays if i get the disk. hopefully we'll get lucky and she'll come around because she is a nice mare and the people who own her are great and will do whatever it takes to help her.
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 17 Jul 2009 22:38 #28

  • brian robertson
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Dave,
Maybe you restored this horse back to health with the stryofoam/trailer ride or the Vet x-rayed the wrong horse or the horse walked better after they Tranq-ed it for the films; so it must be better or there's enough necrosis in the hooves that there's no pain sensation left or the owner should schedule the Backhoe for the imminent burial.

Let us know...
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 20 Jul 2009 23:51 #29

  • dave murray
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Here's the xray's done at the clinic. i shod her today to the vet's RX. rocker toe shoe ,seated out with thin layer of equi-pac or sole guard. i choose the sole guard. she wasn't very happy about the nailing. i got them on as best i could. by the time i got them on and the pads poured in she'd had about all of me she could take so no spit and polish on the finish. i must say she did walk off quite a bit better then she was..
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RE:your thoughts on these x rays 20 Jul 2009 23:56 #30

  • dave murray
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a coulpe other pictures.
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