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TOPIC: Foundered Mare I've been working on

RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 13:57 #16

  • RiversideBoy
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Jaye Perry wrote:
Eli, Myers, Patty and Right,

Here is a pic that was sent to me on another farrier forum in a blind message. What are your thoughts:confused::


It is definitely smoother, but the hoof needs better derotation for a founder (see some of Ron Aalder's posts) and the toe is still very distorted. I am sure it is a lot better than before the trim.
Eli Smith
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 13:58 #17

Gary Hill wrote:
Kim, don't think you are the only hoof care provider that has brought a founder back to service.:rolleyes: Ok, Kim, you PM'd me and thought I was harsh. Sorry but substandard work on horse feet to the satisfaction of the person doing the work is what gives these arguments of licenceing and testing grounds. You continue to dub feet saying that it is OK with you because you see no harm? As I told you in the PM, me and alot of other Farriers continue to have to come behind bad work to attempt to repair damage from it. Have seen it for years and will continue to see it, it unfortunately is and has become a part of this work for some strange reason? Now the Good Baron has provided the Farriers and horseshoes and hoofcare providers all over the world a place to exchange info and learn from each other. USE it to your advantage as we all should and your personal work will improve. We all gain from this site and there IMO are very few Master Farriers in this world of ours and awhole bunch of them don't even own a computer. We are lucky to have a few that I consider and respect as Masters and we all know who they are. Post your work if you have problems, let it get ripped and then learn from it. That I am sure is why
Baron does what he does.

I have to agree with Gary on this one. Same as what I had PM'd to you before. I'll try to help you, but please listen as well.
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 14:06 #18

  • RiversideBoy
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irishcas wrote:
As a matter of fact I do. What is it that bothers you so much, that I didn't put shoes on a founder to get her sound?

I believe if you go back and read my original post you will see I was excited and was bragging. I was NOT asking for help.

So it was a happy post, but *** was I thinking posting something like that here.

How about you go thru your photo archives and pull out a founder you have taken from dead lame, recommended to be put down and less than 6 months later it is walking trotting and cruising around bare on an almost entirely new, connected capsule. Rightstep, feel free to do the same.

When I go back in 4 weeks, I'll make sure to find a gravel drive way for her to walk over, there is one right outside the pen. If you use your eagle eye you can see as she comes out of the shed it is all rocks, I don't see her gimping there.

If you and a few others can't see the new better growth on these feet than you are being willfully and woefully ignorant! Your problem, not Regals or mine.

When you post pictures in a forum of professional farriers with toes dubbed like you did, I would expect some criticism. I am sure you have helped the horse tremendously from where it was. By looking at the pictures, one major benefit may be shorter/better intervals than the previous farrier.

As for shoes, who says it has to have shoes. After all, the benefit to a founder is quite often mostly in the trims (heels down and toes back).

You are obviously on the right path and if you try a few things in addition to what you are already doing, it may lead you to some nicer looking feet that still function to your satisfaction. Good luck....
Eli Smith
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 14:30 #19

irishcas wrote:
As a matter of fact I do. What is it that bothers you so much, that I didn't put shoes on a founder to get her sound?

I believe if you go back and read my original post you will see I was excited and was bragging. I was NOT asking for help.


I have worked on a laminitic case once or twice and I learned the hard way that you're better of counting your blessings if somethings works than brag about it.

What might help other horses in your (future) care is to try and answer a simple question. Did the horse get better because of your trim or in spite of your trim? If you're not a 100% sure about the answer you better keep on counting your -well deserved- blessings.


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 15:20 #20

  • irishcas
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Ronald Aalders wrote:
I have worked on a laminitic case once or twice and I learned the hard way that you're better of counting your blessings if somethings works than brag about it.

What might help other horses in your (future) care is to try and answer a simple question. Did the horse get better because of your trim or in spite of your trim? If you're not a 100% sure about the answer you better keep on counting your -well deserved- blessings.


Ronald Aalders

Last post on this topic.

Ron:

I am well aware of the success and failure rate of treating pathological hooves. For NOW, today I'm excited about the horses progress. I may sing a different tune down the road, but today I'm happy.

I think the horse did get better because of my care, but there is no way to prove or disprove it now is there.

Please any of you show me how my trimming which you call dubbing, I do not, is harmful to the hoof? It seems to displease the eye, but I do not find it to harm the tubules. Why don't you all go slice a piece of wood in half, then trim from the bottom with your bevel. Then do the same thing dressing the "wall" down from the top. Guess what the top trim seals the tubules, the bottom bevel opens them wider.

Thank you all for your input.
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 15:26 #21

Jaye Perry wrote:
Eli, Myers, Patty and Right,

Here is a pic that was sent to me on another farrier forum in a blind message. What are your thoughts:confused::


I think it looks like a very good start. Is it a great looking hoof? No. But with the severity of the distortion, it looks like a nice trim to me. The only thing that will get that distortion out (even with the best of trims) is new hoof growth.

So I wonder what the point of sending you the photo was? :confused:

Kim
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 15:57 #22

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Maybe this will help show what should be done on those hooves Kim. These two pictures were taken four months and five trims apart. The horse was sound after three trims...not six months later. I hope you can see how much more you can do to help the horse, instead of bragging about substandard trims. A great example of another "pro" trimmer's work as the last girl was working on this horse for a year...
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 17:47 #23

Jaye Perry wrote:

I'd say that based on the pronounced suspensory branch either there is a whole lot more rotation than is being accounted for, OR......

It's a cadaver foot.
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 19:40 #24

  • caballus
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Sycamore Forge wrote:
I'd say that based on the pronounced suspensory branch either there is a whole lot more rotation than is being accounted for, OR......

It's a cadaver foot.
Well, if a cadaver foot then that horse sure won't be bucking and taking off at full gallop like the girl did today after her trim! (see my photos/remarks above.)
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 19:46 #25

caballus wrote:
Well, if a cadaver foot then that horse sure won't be bucking and taking off at full gallop like the girl did today after her trim! (see my photos/remarks above.)

I have a horse like that on the books as well, Damn thing just wont DIE. :eek::rolleyes:

Wazzup with the susp. branch?

Is this horse on a rad block in the pic?

Yeah, Missed those remarks... my bad.

Nice start.
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 20:03 #26

  • caballus
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Ronald Aalders wrote:
I have worked on a laminitic case once or twice and I learned the hard way that you're better of counting your blessings if somethings works than brag about it.

What might help other horses in your (future) care is to try and answer a simple question. Did the horse get better because of your trim or in spite of your trim? If you're not a 100% sure about the answer you better keep on counting your -well deserved- blessings.


Ronald Aalders
Amen to that !! :)
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
thepenzancehorse.com
barefoottrim.com
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 01 Jul 2009 21:38 #27

  • Mark_Gough
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Sycamore Forge wrote:
I'd say that based on the pronounced suspensory branch either there is a whole lot more rotation than is being accounted for, OR......

It's a cadaver foot.

Agreed, but I'm wondering if that was what Jaye was looking for.

If we're critiquing the trim, I'm betting Jaye is waiting for someone to notice that the horse would be walking on an already compromised sole.

There's value in having at least some wall touch the ground. :rolleyes:

Foot mass/volume, or in this case, lack thereof, might be a concern.

What say you Jaye?

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 02 Jul 2009 00:20 #28

  • Jaye Perry
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Mark_Gough....Foot mass/volume, or in this case, lack thereof, might be a concern.

What say you Jaye?


The pic was sent to me for opinion, just wanted other timmers/farrier opines. IMO, looks like it's getting better, but it's not my case to work on/with. Said the same to the anonymous/blind message sender.:)
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 02 Jul 2009 01:01 #29

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When the systemic problem is managed the feet tend to get better as long as the damage has not been extensive.......if the systemic situation is not delt with it amounts to pounding your head on a wall.

I am no longer confident when confronted with these about exactly what needs to be done and feel that most of past success or failures were primarily because of the above rather than my work.
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RE:Foundered Mare I've been working on 02 Jul 2009 02:08 #30

  • caballus
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I totally agree with the systemic management! I discussed that today with the owner about the horse whose hoof I posted above. Since she's done all the Thyrol L, Pergolide, no sugar/low carb, no grass thing and its not working at all we're now discussing going to all 'natural' forage diet - veggies, fruits, nuts, seeds, herbs, GRASS!, with good quality hay and no grain at all. Stopping the meds and seeing if we can't get the horse's system cleared out, strengthened and back to a point where she can heal herself. http://www.lavendersageequine.com is the impetus for this. Some pretty impressive testimonies, backed by veterinarian supervision.

Just for interest's sake - here is the xray for the hoof I posted above:

You can see how much rotation and how much laminar wedge there is/was.

Even though the mare was comfortable to gallop off today there are still laminitic rings developing in the new growth. So, when something isn't working then something's gotta be changed. In this case, the diet.
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
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