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TOPIC: first attempt last resort

RE:first attempt last resort 27 Jun 2009 21:03 #16

Mark_Gough wrote:
Ron, not to be argumentative, but I have to ask how this can be true on a hard surface that offers no 'give'?

Try and visualize a triangle pointing down. Anything on top of the flat base would be fully supported as far as the surface of that base allows, although that entire structure -the triangle and what placed op top- rests on a sharp tip

Mark_Gough wrote:
De-rotation of the coffin bone. Are you accomplishing this solely via the trim, or does the banana shoe play a role. My earlier comments suggested that I was attributing any de-rotation of P3 to the trim. The banana shoe serves the role of self-adjusting angles, eased break-over and support.

Two different goals; two different but complimentary processes, right?


Correct, the trim -sometimes supported with a counterwedge or gooseneck shoe- provides the derotation. The banana comes in as a DDFT pull reliever for one.

Ronald Aalders
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RE:first attempt last resort 27 Jun 2009 23:11 #17

  • westtxshoer
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Ronald Aalders wrote:
Try and visualize a triangle pointing down. Anything on top of the flat base would be fully supported as far as the surface of that base allows, although that entire structure -the triangle and what placed op top- rests on a sharp tip
Thanks for that visualization, Ron. That really helps me to understand and it also makes sense.
RJ Little
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RE:first attempt last resort 28 Jun 2009 16:05 #18

  • Joey Aczon
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Ronald Aalders wrote:
Try and visualize a triangle pointing down. Anything on top of the flat base would be fully supported as far as the surface of that base allows, although that entire structure -the triangle and what placed op top- rests on a sharp tip

But assuming the belly of the roll really is under COA I don't see how extended heels makes a difference. I can see how using an eggbar and moving belly back would effect it, but if the roll is placed properly does it even matter if you have an extended heel or toe ro what have you?
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:first attempt last resort 29 Jun 2009 05:25 #19

Joey Aczon wrote:
But assuming the belly of the roll really is under COA I don't see how extended heels makes a difference. I can see how using an eggbar and moving belly back would effect it, but if the roll is placed properly does it even matter if you have an extended heel or toe ro what have you?

In soft footing it does, that is as far as I have been able to deduce :D


Ronald Aalders
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RE:first attempt last resort 29 Jun 2009 21:40 #20

  • daveyireland
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Thanks for the advice Ron I see what you mean now about lifting effect next time will use a bar shoe. Some questions for Ron or anyone else who can help me, with regards to derotation would you have used a reverse wedge like ive seen in some of Rons photos or does this increase ddft pull too much on a foot like this or have no effect as p3 is simply returning to the angle it should be at? If you were to do one of these jobs without x rays what guides do you use for finding the coa or can this be done, i was using duckets bridge is this an accurate coa point in a foot with rotation I see now i was also going wrong thinking it was the shoe rocking that was going to help derotation rather than the trim first derotating? Sorry for the schoolboy questions and thanks Mark for your questions and thoughts they've been a great help in understanding. Ray didnt take alot off the toe i was thinking it wasnt acting as a lever with the rocker shoe, i know this has been a topic of discussion recently and there are people on both sides of the fence but after reading the discussion and thinking about it myself i was siding with the crowd that felt removing the toe served no purpose.
David Kelly
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