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TOPIC: 6th shoer to give it a try

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 19 Jun 2009 12:57 #61

  • Joey Aczon
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Way to go Ron!

I find the really sore horses take a good week or more to show much improvement.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 20 Jun 2009 08:10 #62

DeniseMc;162831 wrote:
Ron,
That's good news! So, back to the topic of mechanics.

I'm curious about this statement. Did you trim heels based on the xrays?



Yes Ma'am I did

When I look at the post trim photos it appears to me more heel could have been taken, based on two different theories.

I'm not sure what theories you are referring to, but you will find that on a chronic laminitic horse that has not been trimmed to suit the particular mechanical needs of his condition for years, the hoofcapsule changes shape over time as well. Trimming heels drastically reduces the palmar angle but from a lateral view the worry that you might not have taken away enough keeps nagging. By the way there was no way to take away more, not without risking getting the horse sore. The changing of shape obviously has to do with the fact that the amount of growth in the anterior part of the foot does not match the amount of growth in the posterior part of the foot. Impaired bloodflow being the culprit here. Even in severe cases mostly the heels still have bloodflow. A solution is glue ons but in this case because of lack of a local shoer capable of redoing that I did not glue.

Curious, on the xrays did you draw a line parallel to the bottom of the coffin bone, leaving a certain amount of sole and use that to guide how much wall and at what angle? If so, how much sole? Were xrays taken after the trim?

That's theory talking. In real life you take a note of where the "trim line" passes the bearing surface of the hoofcapsule. That is the spot your trim starts. Than you trim backward and take away (usually all) heel. If that does not suffice you need Equilox to glue on a shoe in the correct position. If I was to show that procedure I might scare away shoers that do not have the luxury of working with all that is available nowadays. And as illustrated here you can help out a lot of horses with just a steel shoe and a wedge pad and some hoofpack. (I don't see it as my task to show how much stuff I have in my van to work with. I want to explain what works for me, has a solid theoretical base ánd in field success.)

No such luxury as post shoeing rads. I will have some made though


Ronald Aalders
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 20 Jun 2009 14:19 #63

  • Mark_Gough
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DeniseMc wrote:
I'm not sure I completely follow what you're talking about here. How are you determing where this "trim line" should be? Are you basing a theoritical "trim line" on the xrays? What if there are no xrays available? What external references are you using? Is this similar to what Redden refers to using the angle of the frog? (and I don't completely understand that either). I don't understand how it guides you in determing how much depth to remove. Is there something I'm missing from his or your explanation of your technique, like using depth of collateral grooves alongside the frog? Maybe Mark G. will get you over to the states one of these days and some of us can get a hands-on demo...
Denise

Denise, I'm more than willing to host a "Ron Aalders" clinic at my facility and think it's something that a LOT of folks here would want to be part of. The work Ron is doing is, in my view, hugely important and represents skills that we all could benefit from.

Kate and I have the Midwest centralized location, the indoor facilities, the horses, can provide the tools/equipment and cover a good part of the costs. I just need to get some idea of how many others would be willing to invest in the effort and help out with some of the management details.

What say you guys? How many would be willing to travel to southwest Ohio on a Saturday or Sunday to spend a long day with Ron and learn/see firsthand his methodologies?

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 20 Jun 2009 14:55 #64

  • Rick Burten
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Mark_Gough wrote:

What say you guys? How many would be willing to travel to southwest Ohio on a Saturday or Sunday to spend a long day with Ron and learn/see firsthand his methodologies?

Cheers,
Mark

I'm in.....
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 21 Jun 2009 00:24 #65

  • Clint Burrell
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Mark_Gough wrote:
What say you guys? How many would be willing to travel to southwest Ohio on a Saturday or Sunday to spend a long day with Ron and learn/see firsthand his methodologies?

Cheers,
Mark

I would be most interested depending on date and cost. Mostly date due to my "sweetys" work. Can't interfere w/ that!;)

Clint
Clint Burrell

"You say your from collage,
but you don't seem to bright.
You just brought a swichblade
to a pistol fight"
Move On by Chris Knight
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 21 Jun 2009 01:59 #66

  • red_hush21
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Ron, to stick to the banana shoe topic. :D

My mare is still in superfast, my farrier agreed to the banana package and he understands the mechanics ( showed him your ref. pictures and we spent some time drawing )

We still have little nailling, she's comming along but still needs a good 6-8 weeks before we get good enough wall.

Do you think I could sculpt the superfast to give it the banana shape ?
Have you ever tried this ? Could it hold ?

Thanks,
Chocolat noir & Sake.... :D
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 21 Jun 2009 03:37 #67

  • Travis Reed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Gough

What say you guys? How many would be willing to travel to southwest Ohio on a Saturday or Sunday to spend a long day with Ron and learn/see firsthand his methodologies?

Cheers,
Mark

I'm in.....

Mark i am in and can pick up people along they way if needed i will be passing thru tenn..ky..and so on
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 21 Jun 2009 03:59 #68

  • westtxshoer
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I'd like to try and come myself, but that depends largely upon when.
RJ Little
Merkel, Texas
817-341-9857

"I ain't askin' nobody for nuthin', if I can't get it on my own." - Charlie Daniels
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 21 Jun 2009 04:25 #69

  • Mark_Gough
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Guys, I don't want to hi-jack the thread, but like you, I think getting Ron here would be very worthwhile.

I have no idea when we would attempt this. My initial question was to gauge immediate interest on this forum. Looks like there certainly would be quite a bit of interest.

I'll start working a plan with specific date opportunities, cost figures, etc and see if I can make this work for us. If I can get a viable plan together, I'll post specifics in the upcoming-clinics section of the forum.

I'd like to do this in 2009 if Ron can make himself available.

Red-Hush... might make a nice road trip for you, your horse and your farrier! :D

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 21 Jun 2009 04:39 #70

  • Gary Hill
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Damn if Tish is bringing her horse, I'll hitch a ride with R J?:D
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 21 Jun 2009 13:41 #71

  • red_hush21
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I wish I could - I really do.
Chocolat noir & Sake.... :D
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 21 Jun 2009 14:13 #72

  • mwmyersdvm
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Quite a thread. I would like to add some of my experience in these cases.

The RCMP who has a laminitic horse with a 'negative' IR test and still founders has an IR horse that is responding to something in the diet. When the test is run on a fasted horse this may be negative, but if you add the offending product the insulin will go through the roof and identify the problem dietary ingredient. The 'experts' have become so 'consistent' in their test protocols they forget to get a little creative and think a bit outside the box. The second point of this is that if you do the same thing (zero diet change) the same way you will get the same result (continual laminitic bouts). "Everything" has not been tried on this horse would be my point. Only thoise things within the realm of the knowledge of the people working the case. I outsource when the case isn't going well so I ncan get more input. Too many 'experts' don't do this.

The P3 of this pony will be an ongoing problem and the lack of bone density also equates to a lack of P3 stability. This also indicates the blood flow is compromised. This may result in an inability to resolve this case. A venogram can show the circulatory pattern and if there is a lot of granulation tissue in this hoof, resolution is highly unlikely.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 22 Jun 2009 18:46 #73

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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If Ronald comes over, is he picking up Smitty on his way?:D
Ben Sturman
AFA CF #7558

Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 23 Jun 2009 04:43 #74

  • Mark_Gough
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BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
If Ronald comes over, is he picking up Smitty on his way?:D

Now wouldn't that be one hell of a clinic!?!

Don't tempt me! :D

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:6th shoer to give it a try 23 Jun 2009 04:46 #75

Mark_Gough wrote:
Now wouldn't that be one hell of a clinic!?!

Don't tempt me! :D

Cheers,
Mark

Please have it close to my home !!!!
Bradley SaintJohn

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