make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Sunday June 26, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: 6th shoer to give it a try

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 16 Jun 2009 17:26 #46

  • hurleycane
  • hurleycane's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 129
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Katy - Yes your articles are helpful and every body refers to your site as the "place to go" for nutrition. As an owner, the smart thing you did was vent - I don't agree with you - but it is good to get that venom out. The smarter thing you did was ask for feed back. I think what is missing is just some plain ole simple straight forward recommendations on a chart. Not that I have a solution, but I would like to offer what would help me and probably all the blacksmiths/farriers/trimmers present solutions to owners is a simple half page flow chart.

One for each of the following: _______*Hay ______*Graze ______*Grain ______*Exercise/dry lot ______*Hand Treats/Clicker Treats

healthy actively used horse
over weight or retired/injured horse
suspected laminitis (heat/tender foot)
laminitis (down, founder stance)
foundered (chronic laminitis)


You could use letters to denote the recommended amounts with a key code with explanations at the bottom.

Like if you want to tell folks with a healthy horse how much & what kind of hay to feed:

GA 20% GA= a grass hay/alfalfa 75/25 mix
20% = % of Body weight/day
SG/SF SG = a grass hay tested under 10% NSC
or any grass hay soaked in H20 2 hrs.

Under grains you could list diet balancers, different brands of the preferred makers etc etc.

And why not make specific feed supplier recommendations? For instance do you have enough info compiled of feed suppliers to list recommended feeds by region? Farriers could also let these Feed MFGR/Feed store folks know they are willing to promote this and can probably get some $ or samples???

Just a thought....

Mary Ann
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 16 Jun 2009 19:16 #47

DeniseMc wrote:
And if there was a stern warning on a pack of cigarettes that they cause cancer or that second-hand smoke causes cancer or respiratory problems in others would that be enough to make you quit? Should other folks vent their anger towards you should you ignore the warnings and continue to smoke?
Denise

Oh Denise! You swing below the belt so smoothly; I almost didn't feel the blow :)

What I choose to do to myself through ignore/ance is another subject altogether. Drinking, smoking, and dancing the hoochey-koo until 4 a.m. are not among the wisest decisions I make. But I don't walk into people's houses and light up; I don't drink and drive, and I don't impose my bump and grind on the unsuspecting public. Hell, I've even backed off on the road rage and the pipe bombs.

I'm reasonably cognizant of many of my faults and well aware that I'm about as far from perfect as one can get, but I try not to be rude (although my bluntness gets me categorized that way on occasion) and I try to take care of the living creatures in my trust--from kids to kats, heelers to horses, ex-wives to current wives, and so forth. :cool:
~~Danvers

Danvers Child, CJF

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.foxtailforge.com


“Watch what people are cynical about, and you will often discover what they lack." General George S. Patton Jr.

"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 16 Jun 2009 21:54 #48

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
Katy Watts wrote:
So, if I were to write a one page, sort of cartoon version of the importance of diet, do you think it would be useful? Maybe stick with jr high level words, KISS. If I write this, will you hand it out?

For those who care enough, and have the ability and patience to read several pages, this is a good overall plan.
http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/LaminitisDefense.pdf

Simple works for lots of people. I'd hand it out.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 16 Jun 2009 21:56 #49

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
The difference is, I/we have the ability to make choices. The horse doesn't. So, whatever lifestyle Danvers or anyone else chooses for themselves doesn't cause me anger. But anyone who willfully abrogates[through ongoing ignorance or otherwise] their responsibility for the proper stewardship of the horses and other animals entrusted to their care, doesn't just make me angry, it really pis-ses me off. Same goes for said "adults" who do the same thing to children and other 'innocents'.

But hey, that's just me.......;)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 17 Jun 2009 00:12 #50

  • Katy Watts
  • Katy Watts's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 677
  • Thank you received: 11
  • Karma: 4
Joey and Red,
Is this useful to you for your clients who cannot savvy my website, and are not inclined to read more than one page? If this is close to what you need, I can fix it so you can copy and paste into Word and you can edit as you need too. I'm thinking if you don't want get in someone's face, just put this in the mailbox on the way by.
Is the religious hook at the end over the top?

http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/Your%20Horse%20has%20Laminitis.pdf
Are you feeding your horse like a cow?
www.safergrass.org
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 17 Jun 2009 01:02 #51

  • hurleycane
  • hurleycane's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 129
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
A diabetic is given a choice of two 1800 calorie meal plans for a day.

On the right is a pile of sugar - on the left is a spread of high fiber low fat lean meat meals.

In sugar reality, the only difference between the two for the diabetic to consider is time. How much and how fast that 1800 cal enters the blood stream is the diabetic's problem. Not so much the vehicle it comes in.

If the diabetic wanted to, they could consume the pile of sugar one grain at a time over 24 hrs and not spike their blood sugar any more than they would had they chosen the more complex fair.

Unless they lack insulin entirely.

Then the treatment is insulin - no food or complexity of food will help them.

So the goal is to avoid the spike

Matters not the percentage of carb in the food - more so how much and how often or how quickly they consume the food/calories.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 17 Jun 2009 02:59 #52

  • Travis Reed
  • Travis Reed's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1542
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 4
Katy I like that really at least it grabs there attention right off the bat and then they can go to the site and have a idea of whats really going on….the fact that I like it does that make me a simpleton…
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 17 Jun 2009 03:08 #53

  • Mark_Gough
  • Mark_Gough's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2184
  • Thank you received: 35
  • Karma: 7
hurleycane wrote:

Like if you want to tell folks with a healthy horse how much & what kind of hay to feed:

GA 20% GA= a grass hay/alfalfa 75/25 mix
20% = % of Body weight/day
SG/SF SG = a grass hay tested under 10% NSC
or any grass hay soaked in H20 2 hrs.

Mary Ann

Mary Ann, do you really feed your horses 200 pounds of hay per day?! :D

I tell them 1.5% total body weight in feed/forage for a horse that isn't being worked. 2.0-2.5% for a working horse. Re-evaluate every 30 days. Total feed percentage can vary widely dependent on breed, use and individual genetics.

I try to avoid specific discussions about nutrition with clients. Takes a lot of time; I'm not an expert in that area and owners seem to have a pretty short attention span. They can also get rather defensive.

If I see an overweight horse, I'll mention that the animal may be carrying a bit too much and suggest they discuss it with their vet. If they want details I refer them to Katy's site. If their horse is suffering laminitis I'll strongly recommend they involve their vet and focus most of my attention on the mechanics of the problem at hand.

I can't undo the past of the horse and won't have a lot of control over its dietary future. What I can do is try to get the horse comfortable and stabilize the hoof with a plan towards recovery. That plan would include the veterinary discussions I recommend the owner should have.

I don't feel angry, hurt, disgusted or disappointed. It's their horse, not mine, and I've learned to separate my personal feelings in such matters. I'll do the best I can for the animal in hand and remind the owner that the bulk of the daily responsibility for long term recovery rests with them.

You can wear yourself out trying to get people to do the right thing with their livestock. As long as the check clears the bank, I'll do what I can in the comparatively short time that I spend with the horse. The rest is up to the owner.

If the owner smokes, drinks, eats too much or dances a jig naked in the pale moonlight, well... that's none of my affair either.

Reading Ron's comments about how he addresses the immediate, mechanical needs of the horse; now that's something I can actually gain some knowledge and control over and ultimately use to help the animal.

After all, if the horse is standing there in pain; rotated and threatening to fall through the bottom of its feet, I can talk to the owner all day about nutrition but it won't help that horse a bit during my visit. They probably won't write that check either if that's all I've got to offer.

Cheers,
Mark
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 17 Jun 2009 03:14 #54

  • Mark_Gough
  • Mark_Gough's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2184
  • Thank you received: 35
  • Karma: 7
Joey Aczon wrote:
LOL, I'm the same way. I REALLY need to pay attention to how I explain hoof issues to clients as most of them really don't even understand the anatomy.

This sounds right up Mr Goughs alley though.

Mr. Gough? Damn, am I that old!?! That's what I thought everyone called my dad! :rolleyes:
Actually, I think that's a big factor in why I broke up with my last lady friend. :eek:

I'm pretty sure I didn't have anything to do with that, but hey, it's kind of fun thinking about the possibility! :D

Cheers,
Mark
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 17 Jun 2009 12:06 #55

  • hurleycane
  • hurleycane's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 129
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
:eek:Oh Shucks Mark! I meant to say that was my ten day shopping list!:) Good thing I don't compound selenium supplements!

Mean intended as it was - that short PDF is better than sending them to Safergrass.org in an emergency. The way the site is now is akin to a Doctor sending a patient to the PDR (Physicians Drug Reference) to figure out what drug they should take for their illness. In the PDR you are sure to find a collection of study findings that will keep you busy reading - but not help your immediate illness.

Safergrass home page points out that a brief synopsis is available on a power point CD.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 17 Jun 2009 20:24 #56

  • irishcas
  • irishcas's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1708
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Katy Watts wrote:
Joey and Red,
Is this useful to you for your clients who cannot savvy my website, and are not inclined to read more than one page? If this is close to what you need, I can fix it so you can copy and paste into Word and you can edit as you need too. I'm thinking if you don't want get in someone's face, just put this in the mailbox on the way by.
Is the religious hook at the end over the top?

http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/Your%20Horse%20has%20Laminitis.pdf

That is awesome Katy. I want it, may I?

I would also like to link to it from my website, may I?

My only suggestion would be to put up a blurb with Pix of two body types, the skinny TB that is lamintic (I have a pix of one if you need it) and a fat lamnitic (have pix of those too :D :D) Showing what can be a laminitic horse.

I LOVE IT.

While Peace Love and all that jazz is the way to go, most humans can't understand it. You have to scare the sh i te out of them to get em to listen.

Here is a pix of a horse I saw 9 weeks ago. She has foundered the past 2 springs and foundered bad. Vet and I both told owners NO GRASS. Well 9 weeks ago I show up and I find the frigging horse out in the grass pasture. When questioned, I was told but but but, it's almost dead grass, it's sparse. Hulllo even worse than thick healthy grass. Well I broke out my tools and started trimming and sure enough I found blood in the sole and a stretched WL. Same with their uber obese Donk.

I told them in a very stern, PO voice that they were killing these animals and that I would never come back again. I showed them the blood and said the foot was going to fall off (exaggeration). Basically stormed around and threw my tools about. Wrote on a piece of paper www.safergrass.org and told them that I would be questioning them the next time I came back. If I didn't like the answers it was the last time they'd see me.

First 3 pix are of the visit with the grass, donkey foot was mid trim in the 3rd shot. Had paused to point out the holes to the owner. That is what really did them in

It worked. (last pix is of a few days ago. No solar shots, sorry)

Went back at 5 weeks later, horses and donk are much much skinner, they created a real dry lot. Use muzzles for early morning grazing, they read Katy's stuff. Found some of it overwhelming but could answer simple questions about NSC's, best grazing times, etc. Vet even complimented me, when she was at my farm on the changes I had wrought. Her and I have a touchy relationship at best but she loved that I was so mean. Amazing what will garner respect in some people's eyes.

So h ell yes Katy, give me what you can. I know how hard you work, and I know how unappreciated you can be. You aren't doling out easy to deal with information, your message SUCKS!!! I don't want to keep my horse off grass. I don't want to use a muzzle, I don't want to learn nutrition, blech.

But I'll do it. For the love of the d amn horse.

Thanks for everything. Yours is not a glory job, growing grass :eek: Hey maybe you should grow the kind we can all smoke, way more profitable. :D
Attachments:
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 17 Jun 2009 21:37 #57

  • ThomasRideandDrive
  • ThomasRideandDrive's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Equestrian Centre Proprietor, Northumberland, UK
  • Posts: 2514
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 1
In the UK it's pretty common for equine vets and farriers to do an annual newsletter to their clients. Normally about March and one of the things it always contains is a salient warning about laminitis alongwith facts and photos telling people how many cases there's been, how many horses and ponies have been put down and what to do to prevent it.

Always in plain speak and often done as a tabloid newspaper with a banner eye catching headline.

And in huge big bold letters warnings about diet and particularly about absolutely avoiding the lush spring grass that's due come end April.

Are you guys doing similar over there?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 18 Jun 2009 06:46 #58

  • Red Amor
  • Red Amor's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3358
  • Thank you received: 22
  • Karma: 5
BIG THANKS Wattsy love
that will be helpfull;)
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 18 Jun 2009 12:48 #59

  • Katy Watts
  • Katy Watts's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 677
  • Thank you received: 11
  • Karma: 4
Thomas_Ride&Drive wrote:
Are you guys doing similar over there?

No. Thomas, you are much more civilized in the UK. That might happen on the east coast near big cities where there are equine only vet practices. The owners of the neglected founder cases we are trying to reach are generally in remote rural areas, and they tend not to call vets when their horses get laminitis. When you suggest such, they generally say something like 'well Grampa always said...." They might think that having somebody trim the pony twice a year is spending way more than the pony is worth.

Even worse are the 'experienced' horse people who already know everything and are therefore impervious to learning anything new. They refuse to recognize that full time grass is just not safe for certain animals. They think that because they have never foundered a horse in 30 years, their stock is risk free. Only now they aren't riding, they have retired horses 20+ years old getting Cushings/PPID, and they bought a pony for their grandchildren. They just don't get that they are now keeping a completely different kind of horse, and need to change their management accordingly.
Katy
Are you feeding your horse like a cow?
www.safergrass.org
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:6th shoer to give it a try 19 Jun 2009 03:38 #60

For the ones that are interested in the mechanical issues at hand, the owner called me yesterday that the pony is not lame anymore.

Personally I think that may not last but it does show the power of applied mechanics.


Ronald Aalders
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • cowgirlup birthday is today
  • gabear67E2 birthday is today
  • jimmyoyow birthday is today
  • AClement birthday is in 1 day
  • andreanelson birthday is in 1 day
  • dani_shoes78 birthday is in 1 day
  • Docbarhorse birthday is in 1 day
  • SherryinPA birthday is in 1 day
Time to create page: 0.233 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.