Mark_Gough wrote:Very nicely done Ron. Couple of questions for you.
Mark in brown, me in black:
When you say the banana shoe offers a 'self adjustable palmar angle feature', are you referring to the ability of the horse to "rock itself" into the position of most comfortable A/P balance around COA or... is it a reference to coffin bone angulation with respect to the ground surface?
Both Mark, both. The horse does not rock "itself" it rocks its feet
Is there a relationship between this 'self balancing' and the angle of the P3 solar surface with the ground (ground parallel, wedged effect, etc)?
Obviously when a horse changes the angle its hoof makes to the horizontal, the palmar angle of P3 will change accordingly. They're connected (even in a big time laminitic case like this one)
Is the first photograph (pre-shod) showing the right foot trimmed/prepped for the shoe installation?
Uh, no Mark with that pic I hoped to illustrate how important it is to trim heels. The horse needs caudal support if you want to give it a fighting chance at all
I believe you've talked briefly about the 'padding' you use with the shoe. Some kind of polymer sandwiched between two thin layers of metal? Does the metal sheeting cover the entire bottom of the foot or is it a rim type pad fit to the perimeter of the foot? Where do you get this material and why do you use it over other materials?
That would be a sandwich plate. It's not a padding, its a pad. Two thin layers of aluminum with a rubber compound in between. It was never designed for horses but suits my needs just the same. For the hoofpack to give full support I need a firm rigid pad that I can easily cut will not give and is light. This type of pads offers just that. The packing is Vettec's CS. By the way I'm not too picky where the type of packing is concerned. I never found that differences in hardness have that much impact on recovery in laminitic cases. You need firm but giving.
I can see packing in the left caudal area. Is this for support or to act as a cushion between the hard surface of the pad and the foot?
No the shoe was longer than the heels. When duct taping the foot prior to injecting the CS this is what you're left with when the CS sets and you peel away the tape
I've seen the 'template' iron you use to build the convex shape of the shoe. Is the radial of the shoe always the same for each instance in which you use this application or do you use other templates to provide more or less angular radius as needed? My guess is that the ideal radius is measured from the COA to the ground surface. If it varies, how do acquire this measurement?
Definitely not. The belly of the roll should always be directly below the COA. (I have seen Dr. Redden shoe horses placing the roll a tad before the COA. I never did that. I agree that placing the roll a bit in front of the COA gives you some room to play with, but I just want zero DDFT pull, at least at the point where DDFT peaks, that fraction before heel lift)
Was the xray taken post-trim?
NO
What improvement in apparent comfort level of the horse could you see when the work was complete?
None
Was the 'full body' photograph taken after the shoes were installed?
Prior to shoeing
I have a hard time visualizing a usable COA based on the xray in the photo. If I draw a line from the COA at the DIPJ to the ground it leaves the HPA almost vertical. I believe this is because of the relationship between P1 and P2 at the pastern joint. Alignment of P1/P2 is straight, but the 'at-rest' position appears to show subluxation at the articulating surface. Is the COA still a valid reference in such an 'up-right' limb?
What you need to do first is derotate/realign P3. The COA deal come in AFTER derotation/realignment
Do you use this banana shoe configuration to address any other problems besides laminitics? Otherwise sound horses?
Yes Sir. On sound horses it helps a horse to dorsi extend the back (round the back as opposed to hollow/dorsi flex the back) In fact I think that our focus on feet in horses should be widened. We need to step back more when looking at horses and look at the whole horse, not just the feet.
Have you come to believe, based on your own experience, that your banana shoe is a more effective solution for treating laminitics than the more popular wooden and polymer clogs?
It's is not about the shoe. It's all about the mechanics the shoeing protocol offers. This is what unnerves me when people talk about clogs or whatever kind of shoeing protocol and present it as a solution in itself. What can be beneficial is the mechanical properties of a shoeing package. Not the name of that package, or the guy selling or endorsing it. Its the mechanical effect that can offer either relief or strain
Yeah, I know... lot's of questions. Frankly, I view some of the work you are doing in this area as way ahead of just about anything else I see in my own area. I have found no example of anyone in this locale using this method to treat laminitics and I'm not convinced it is getting the attention that it deserves.
One last question. Do you have any plans to visit the states in the near future for any kind of clinical demonstrations of your techniques? Perhaps the AFA, GPF or BWFA (I hear they're big on research

) would be interested in financing/arranging such a clinic.
I travel to the US frequently. I'm happy to explain what I do and how I think about shoeing laminitic horses. But by now this here board offers most of what I do when working on laminitic horses. It takes some searching but it's all there.
This kind of work needs exposure and, in my opinion, lots of study, analysis and repetition by others.
A high value contribution you could make would be a step-by-step training video. I have to believe there would be a HUGE market for such a video. Might make a nice retirement supplement when you're ready to hang up the hammer in 30 or 40 years.
I know I know. So far I promised Baron to talk on mechanical effect of shoeing during his Online Conference and I promised Frank Lessiter of the AFJ to do a story on Reining horse shoeing. I intend to do both before I do anything else. But hey, I need to make a living in the meantime as well!
Thanks for sharing Ron! Please share more! Lot's more!!
You're very welcome
Cheers,
Mark[/QUOTE]
p.s. this is the foot post trim
p.p.s the belly of the roll of a banana is always directly below the COA. The amount of roll however differs. What I work with are basically 3 grades. When ground side down on your anvil face a 6 mm (1/4") space at heel and toe is a light roll. 10 mm (3/8") is medium, 13 mm (1/2") is a heavy roll. The matching wedges are 1 degree, 2 degree and 3, sometimes 4 degree on the heavy roll.