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TOPIC: Navicular maybe

Navicular maybe 27 May 2009 01:21 #1

  • solidrockshoer
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Picked up a new horse at one of the barns I shoe at.
The histrory is this horse which is 9 year old QH was
diagnosed with pedal osteitis last fall. The farrier shod her
with wide web shoes and IM, so I am told. She was in a
0 rim shoe after, the wide webs. I noticed that the horse was figity(sp) on her
front end when I was shoeing her. Would constantly shift
her weight from right,left,right left...I did not see anything
in the foot that would be consistant with PO. The foot did not
test posistive in the toe region whatsoever. I continued to
test the foot and found severe heel pain along with severe
pain in the center of the frog. She lands lateral toe first, badly.
I put ge size 1 aluminum wdge egg bars on her with the shoe
rolled from heel nail to heel nail. Owners says she is off one day
and seems better the next. She comes out of the stall lame.
Very short choppy strides but gets better the more she works/walks.
I stopped by to check her today. She is standing more comfortable
on her feet)no more fijiting. But is still landing lateral toe first.(LF)
She has gotten a second opinion on the x-rays but has not heard
back from the new vet. The RF shows lameness as well, but, not
as bad. She is going to e-mail me the x-rays and I will post them
hear. She said the new vet said the x-rays where not taken very well.

Also forgot to mention she has short upright pasterns, and a naturally
steep hoof angle. Her feet are also to small for her size.
I think this is a clear case of Navic. What are your thoughts?
Another problem is she is on a limited budget cause shes in
college. Just spent lots at the first vet, and
horse is still lame.

I think it was mis-diagnosed and the treatment with the wide web
shoes before the rims exacerbated the problem.:confused:

Thanks,

Dan
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RE:Navicular maybe 28 May 2009 13:16 #2

  • calshoer
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I find that horses with upright hooves who land laterally (most club feet land that way) have crooked P1 bones and therefore one of the distal joints sets at a slight angle to the ground even though they stands squarely. With a crooked P1, as soon as the foot leaves the ground it tips inward, therefore it is forced to land on the lateral side. There is nothing you can do to make them land flat which would also not make them coffin joint sore. If she if built like that(an asymmetrical P1) then the intermittent lameness may be originating in the coffin joint, not from the pedal osteitis.The AP radio graph will conform the bone asymmetry if the vet got the whole Pastern in the view.
Also just picking up foot and seeing where it tips when flexed will reveal the problem in foot flight.

IMO the goal in shoeing one of those is to balance ML to the sole plane (not the leg), reduce landing concussion, ease breakover in all directions around the foot, NOT try to get a flat landing, and protect the solar margin of P3 from more pedal osteitis, I use something like a PLR shoe ,T-shoe or similar or a wide web half round with good pads.or in severe cases, plastic shoes or equithotics "sneakers"with the edges well ground off for breakover all around the foot.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:Navicular maybe 28 May 2009 23:49 #3

I think it was mis-diagnosed and the treatment with the wide web
shoes before the rims exacerbated the problem:confused:...

Who really knows? I wouldn't be so quick to throw the last vet and farrier under the bus...prob did what they thought was best at the time. It may take a couple go rounds to figure out what makes one happy...

I agree with all calshoer said...but I also I think alot of these horses that land as you describe have a fair amount of soft tissue damage...collateral ligaments, impar ligaments, articular cartilage, etc...that compoud their problems...even though she is heel sore the main goal for me would be to get a heel first landing no matter what! I would maybe use something like a heel soft pad and something under to distribtue the load over the whole foot equi-pak or impression material...Good luck!
Jack Luffy

Watch your thoughts;they become words...
Watch your words;they become actions...
Watch your actions;they become habits...
Watch your habits;they become character...
Watch your character;it becomes your destiny...
-Frank Outlaw
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RE:Navicular maybe 02 Jun 2009 21:10 #4

  • mwmyersdvm
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Pedal osteitis has always been an interesting diagnosis in my book. It seems to say the coffin bone is inflamed. Since bones themselves cannot 'inflame' and the surrounding soft tissue (like periosteum) must be the culprit that only leaves one real culprit behind the diagnosis of 'pedal osteitis'. The coffin bone does not have a periosteum as it derives its blood supply from the laminae thus when one sees a 'ragged' coffin bone on a radiograph one is seeing the aftermath of laminitis.
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RE:Navicular maybe 03 Jun 2009 11:00 #5

  • tbloomer
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mwmyersdvm wrote:
Pedal osteitis has always been an interesting diagnosis in my book. It seems to say the coffin bone is inflamed. Since bones themselves cannot 'inflame' and the surrounding soft tissue (like periosteum) must be the culprit that only leaves one real culprit behind the diagnosis of 'pedal osteitis'. The coffin bone does not have a periosteum as it derives its blood supply from the laminae thus when one sees a 'ragged' coffin bone on a radiograph one is seeing the aftermath of laminitis.
Doc,

I R confused. :confused:

I had the impression from reading Pollit's references to the "Basement Membrane" that he implied a functional periostium covering of P3. Is the "function of the periostium" a subset of the functions of the basement membrane?
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Navicular maybe 03 Jun 2009 13:41 #6

tbloomer wrote:
Doc,

I R confused. :confused:

I had the impression from reading Pollit's references to the "Basement Membrane" that he implied a functional periostium covering of P3.
Is the "function of the periostium" a subset of the functions of the basement membrane?
Is not the basement membrane understood to be,
a sheet of cells and fibers that underlies two other kinds of cells,
the epithelium, which lines the cavities and surfaces of organs,
and the endothelium, which lines the interior surface of blood vessels.

That being, would they (basement membrane/periosteum) not, be unrelated ???

Being that the coffin bone does not have a periosteum, it can erode, or deteriorate,
where as other bones, having the periosteum do not emulate this ability, and can rebuild.

In my wonderin' :)
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:Navicular maybe 21 Jun 2009 17:55 #7

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Well I never recieved the rads. But she called a few days ago and was able to ride for the first time in several months.:) I think the wedge is helping quite a bit. I also put some magic cushion under the pad. The 3 degree wedge pad with the magic cushion and flat ali egg bar seems to be what she needs at the moment. Better then the wedge egg bar with no pad.The shoe was rolled from heel nail to heel nail.

Has anyone ever had probs with the magic cushion liquifying and running out of the pad?
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