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TOPIC: Domed Impression Material Pads

RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 12 May 2009 19:10 #16

  • reillyshoe
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This shoe/pad combination was on a laminitic horse in small turnout conditions for 4 weeks.

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=178&pictureid=1376
P
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 17 May 2009 19:02 #17

  • Jay Mickle
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Pat,
Just received these rads. Saw horse yesterday and he is in ducted taped black wedge from Rood & Riddle and is amazingly comfortable considering the degree of rotation and lack of sole depth. Would you use this protocol for this horse? What factors would consider to determine appropriateness. Vet is thinking wooden clog with impression material applied with a series III cuff. Your input would be appreciated.
Other input welcome.
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 17 May 2009 21:26 #18

  • Rick Burten
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Why would you wedge a horse that already shows phalangeal alignment and is also just about[and perhaps already is] penetrating out the bottom?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 17 May 2009 22:40 #19

  • daveyireland
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Patrick what type of impression material do you use and what sort of air temperature would it be when setting in five minutes?
David Kelly
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 17 May 2009 22:55 #20

  • Jay Mickle
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Rick Burten wrote:
Why would you wedge a horse that already shows phalangeal alignment and is also just about[and perhaps already is] penetrating out the bottom?

Just guessing that rads had not been developed and the thought was to reduce tension on the DFT. As I said the horse was "amazingly comfortable".
Jay Mickle
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 17 May 2009 23:25 #21

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Jaye, and Rick,

Wedging can be helpful in cases for a number of reasons. More weight is placed on the heels, and the laminae is less affected in that region. There are circulatory changes that probably result from big wedges. The laminae is loaded at a different angle, and some think that this is an important factor. Breakover is also very different with wedging.

It is difficult to know what is best to do with a case like this. The films look "challenging", but remember these films are just one moment in time. He might have displaced before the wedges were applied, and the wedging if mechanically satisfying the needs, or the displacment might be an on going event that might be better stabilized by another route. If he is as comfortable as you say, I might consider watching him for a couple of days before changing anything.
Clogs certainly work for a lot of horses, so I wouldn't rule it out. if I put a force measuring sensor inbetween the hoof and shoe, I would expect the perimeter of the foot would still be apparent, since the impression material is less dense than the wood or the urethane on the series III.
I don't know what the ideal force pattern is, and that was the point of this thread. I like the idea of unweighting the hoofwall if the frog and sole can handle the weight. Everything else is likely to be trial and error. Remember that an additional block of wood can be glued to the bottom of the first, making an adjustable heel. You might find that he really likes the wedges.

I use several different impression materials ranging in hardness. For soft materials, I use Sound Horse Tech products. I also use a firm material make by Wacker. I can change the hardness of any of these materials by adding a silicone polymer (to soften) or glass beads (to harden). The open times on these materials range from 2-3 minutes to 5-6 minutes. I also add copper sulfate to disinfect and dry the hoof, and that likely changes the set up time.
P
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 18 May 2009 00:00 #22

  • Rick Talbert
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reillyshoe wrote:
I don't know what the ideal force pattern is, and that was the point of this thread. I like the idea of unweighting the hoofwall if the frog and sole can handle the weight.
This ideology is similar to Sandy Loree's 5S equine sole support system for foundered horses isn't it? It makes a lot of good sense to me.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 18 May 2009 00:14 #23

  • Jay Mickle
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Pat,
Thanks for the info. I will see the horse tomorrow. More to come.
Jay Mickle
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 18 May 2009 03:48 #24

  • Rick Talbert
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Alright, I'm gonna try this deal out this coming Friday. I just have to order a pair of these domed pads. Our supply shops down here don't keep those things in stock.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 18 May 2009 08:54 #25

  • reillyshoe
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I don't think you can buy them, I make them myself. The easiest way is to take some thin aluminum and dome it on the anvil (old hospital plates work well). I also make some out of heat formed plastic (ABS)
P
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 18 May 2009 13:21 #26

  • Rick Burten
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reillyshoe wrote:
Jaye, and Rick,

Wedging can be helpful in cases for a number of reasons. More weight is placed on the heels, and the laminae is less affected in that region. There are circulatory changes that probably result from big wedges. The laminae is loaded at a different angle, and some think that this is an important factor. Breakover is also very different with wedging.
Pat,

Having now seen the rads, do you still feel that wedging was appropriate? Personally, considering the orientation of the coffin bones I wouldn't wedge this horse.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 18 May 2009 17:52 #27

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Rick Burten wrote:
Pat,

Having now seen the rads, do you still feel that wedging was appropriate? Personally, considering the orientation of the coffin bones I wouldn't wedge this horse.

Rick

I would not discount that wedging could help this horse, radiographs considered.
P
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 18 May 2009 19:51 #28

  • Rick Burten
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reillyshoe wrote:
I would not discount that wedging could help this horse, radiographs considered.
Interesting. Could you please elaborate?

My take on the situation is that though the load may be somewhat shifted to the heels, wouldn't the wedging also tip p3 more and along with the weight of the horse coming down the bony column, and gravity, cause the further descent of the bony column and force p3 right out the bottom? especially considering that the one p3 is already on the bottom and looks to be almost through the sole corium.
I don't think you can buy them, I make them myself. The easiest way is to take some thin aluminum and dome it on the anvil (old hospital plates work well). I also make some out of heat formed plastic (ABS)

Isn't that black pad you show in the photographs an anti-snowball pad? Wouldn't one of those work, especially a draft anti-snowball pad?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 18 May 2009 20:04 #29

  • reillyshoe
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There is always the question how how much wedging- does wedging 30 degrees do the same thing as wedging 3 degrees? Remember, Jaye stated that he is pretty comfortable, and I have done a lot worse. I have had some do well when wedged, even if it is not my starting preference.

I like the draft snow pad idea, but these pads are designed to flex when loaded. The black pad I made is very rigid, so the shape is maintained while the IM sets up.
P
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RE:Domed Impression Material Pads 18 May 2009 21:51 #30

  • Jay Mickle
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Rick Burten wrote:
Pat,

Having now seen the rads, do you still feel that wedging was appropriate? Personally, considering the orientation of the coffin bones I wouldn't wedge this horse.

Rick

I misspoke when I said that the horse was in a wedge. The vet applied a 1" medium dense foam pad. The horse by standing on it compressed the toe to create a wedge.
Jay Mickle
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