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TOPIC: help with aluminum shoes

help with aluminum shoes 16 Mar 2009 02:08 #1

Can anyone give advice in how to help shape aluminum shoes. I have just started working with them as a request from one of my barrel racing customers. It seems difficult to keep them flat. we live in northern Canada so we have been using snow shoe pads. I have never had a problem with shoes falling off with or without pads until I started with Aluminum. We are using Victory's with a high outside rim. Any advice?
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 16 Mar 2009 02:54 #2

  • calshoer
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Which way are they twisting on you?
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 16 Mar 2009 13:29 #3

A heavy horse on frozen ground "could" spring an aluminium shoe. Perhaps the outer rim is keeping you from getting the shoe flat and its already sprung (Never guess why i think that ;)) Also Al shoes are unforgiving if a horse steps on them. If a steel shoe is safed, the foot slides off and the shoe remains, in my experience, a decent step on an ali shoe, safed or otherwise, and off it comes.
Are the shoes clipped? If they are being twisted off that might help. Also, I'll often kick the very rear third of the heels towards the foot on any horse over a thousand pounds. Just enough so I have contact at the heel and a touch of daylight in the quarters. When I nail it, the daylight goes away. This springs the shoe onto the foot and makes it less likley for the ground forces to spring the shoe away from the foot. A bit of a rocker toe will also reduce ground force reaction, and puts the shoe deeper into the foot. It also functions as a de facto clip. On a shoe plucking hunter, barrel horse or WP horse (al shoes) I'll often end up with a rocker toe, fit into the wall side clips ( a file and a sharpie helps here) slighlty kicked up heels and the shoe, including expansion ground and filed intil its a continuation of the wall. This helps eliminate the risk of them stepping on the shoe and twisting it.
I would resist the urge to shoe them short, and make sure you fit the foot with proper expansion.(An AFA dime atleast) but nobody said that could not be beveled into the plain of the foot!:D
Hope that helps,
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 16 Mar 2009 14:45 #4

  • Joey Aczon
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Jason Maki wrote:
Also, I'll often kick the very rear third of the heels towards the foot on any horse over a thousand pounds.

Same with sliding plates. A flat shoe on a flat foot will often pull away at the heels just from the nailing and clinching process.

When you're shaping them you can't hit the shoe straight from the side or it will twist. (ever try to bend angle iron?) You gotta hit it at an angle from the foot side of the shoe and make sure your force is going into the web of the shoe and not the rim. If you hit the rim you will tweak it.

Also, make sure you aren't upsetting the seat of the nail head in the shoe when you go to clinch. That style rim is hard to clinch without pushing the nail back out of the shoe.

And welcome to the forum. :)
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 16 Mar 2009 20:53 #5

  • Jaye Perry
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Joey Aczon-Same with sliding plates. A flat shoe on a flat foot will often pull away at the heels just from the nailing and clinching process.
Having nailed up thousands upon thousands aluminum shoes, plates and bars your not correct IMO. If it comes off the heels, the foot or the shoe "is not flat" :cool:
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 16 Mar 2009 21:47 #6

  • Joey Aczon
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Jaye Perry wrote:
Having nailed up thousands upon thousands aluminum shoes, plates and bars your not correct IMO. If it comes off the heels, the foot or the shoe "is not flat" :cool:

Excuse me...

A flat shoe nailed onto a flat foot by a monkey with a hammer will sometimes reshape the shoe and no longer be flat. :D
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 16 Mar 2009 22:24 #7

  • Jaye Perry
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Joey Aczon wrote:
Excuse me...

A flat shoe nailed onto a flat foot by a monkey with a hammer will sometimes reshape the shoe and no longer be flat. :D

nope, no monkies here. just thousands/thousands of aluminum shoes. sorry joe
i even drive 98% of my nails at or forward of pre-clipped shoes. jme pard.
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 17 Mar 2009 00:06 #8

  • dave murray
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Ken, i think the problem your having is your trying to move the shoe to much . which means the shoe is to small. if you try to open the toe of an outer rim shoe to much it will just twist on you and you'll have a hell of a time trying to level it. try using a size bigger shoe and you may have to rasps the heels a bit but you'll get a much better fit. and use a size bigger nail. that should solve your problem.
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 17 Mar 2009 00:15 #9

  • Joey Aczon
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No, I was talking more about me.....
http://www.howtobeatupanything.com/.a/6a00e554d693738833010535db2191970b-150wi
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 17 Mar 2009 02:38 #10

  • Clint Burrell
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You have been given some good advice here, mine are just a few "IME" thoughts.It's easier to close up a level grip than open it. Go larger and cut the heels.(bolt cutters) Don't hit it more than you have to (about 5-6 times) in the perimeter,1 in toe to spread, 1 in each qtr, 1 in each heel to turn.(use hardy hole and square up good on it) Spread the toe on the horn,foot side closest to you. If it bows you'll be able to flatten. Race plates are bad about blowing/spreading at the heels(like hinds on a stall kicker) heavy barrel horse getting a lot of bite in the arena base can be hard to keep a lite race plate on. Bowing shoe in the qtr's (like the banana shoes of Mr. Adlers) a small bit does seem to help. If using level grips because of a lack of sole concavity,perhaps a lite steel training plate w/ a leather rim pad or a bonded race plate (queens plate) may help. Most times on a barrel horse, the difference in weight vs the job being done is so minor, that I think a steel rim is just as good or better. But if this is what the owner wants and no harm is done then hope this helps. Oh, one more thing. Throw away the Victory's and get some Thoroughbred's,they shape better. Less spring,more malleable. I mostly use 5 race or PS5 Capewells, they're a little harder and seem to work well w/ race plates. You can drive them deep too. Hope that makes sense and helps some.

Clint
Clint Burrell

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but you don't seem to bright.
You just brought a swichblade
to a pistol fight"
Move On by Chris Knight
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 17 Mar 2009 02:42 #11

  • Clint Burrell
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Joey Aczon wrote:
No, I was talking more about me.....
http://www.howtobeatupanything.com/.a/6a00e554d693738833010535db2191970b-150wi

I may need to borrow the monkey,sometimes I over think things. Maybe he can skim over some of those posts that are so long they make my ADD kick in. :D

Clint
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"You say your from collage,
but you don't seem to bright.
You just brought a swichblade
to a pistol fight"
Move On by Chris Knight
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 17 Mar 2009 14:11 #12

  • Joey Aczon
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Clint Burrell wrote:
I may need to borrow the monkey,sometimes I over think things. Maybe he can skim over some of those posts that are so long they make my ADD kick in. :D

Clint

Huh? I lost you halfway through!
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 17 Mar 2009 16:30 #13

  • Clint Burrell
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Joey,
Need a monkey(not referring to you,"real monkey")to skim the barefoot threads for me.Make it watch you tube and farm it out as a trimmer.would be better than an apprentice(I use the term loosely) I had once.:D:)

Have a good one,

Clint
Clint Burrell

"You say your from collage,
but you don't seem to bright.
You just brought a swichblade
to a pistol fight"
Move On by Chris Knight
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 22 Apr 2009 02:34 #14

I think I developed the skill of not messing up an alum shoe from messing up a lot of alum shoes. I wish I had asked for help like Ken. Some great advice on here. Occasionally I still modify the ground surface of a St. Croix eventer, too much traction anyways.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:help with aluminum shoes 22 Apr 2009 19:19 #15

  • Ray_Knightley
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We heat them up a little ,that works very well .
If you have rim shoes the twist in the shoe itsself is what used to get me ,I hit them a little more on the outside ground surface ,and a little more on the inside hoof surface also .turn then on the face of the anvil and not as much on the round horn...

If you put tension in you have to take it out before you put it on!!!!!:p

Ray knightley,farrier Germany.
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