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TOPIC: Big Problem, need input

Big Problem, need input 09 Mar 2009 13:12 #1

  • Rick Burten
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I just got these rads and would like some ideas on what you would do. This horse started to founder aoppx 6 weeks ago right after she was trimmed('nother farrier, not by me). She has been at the UofI veterinary school since appx the third week of January. She was sent home last friday. For most of the time she was at the university she was in extreme pain and on an IV morphine drip to control the pain. She was kept in a sand stall and not walked except for a short time near the end of her stay. The owners built a sand stall for her which is where she now resides. At the time she was sent home, the pulse in her feet had returned to normal, there was no heat and she had been off all pain meds for several days. The owner now reports that she has increased digital pulses especially in the right front. The horse was sent home in boots with closed cell foam pad inserts. According to the owner, the horse seemed relatively comfortable. Boots were removed, per veterinary instructions, when the horse was placed in the sand stall. Within 48 hours, the pulse increase was noted and bute was administered 1gm/2x/day. I have been 'in the loop' as to this horse's condition and treatment since just after she arrived at the UofI but to date have not worked on the horse. That, I beleive, is about to change now that the horse is home.

So, What would you do? When I get them all copied, I'll start an album.

left front:



Right front:

Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Big Problem, need input 09 Mar 2009 14:34 #2

Rick,

Any ice slurry involved? Styro Pads Considered?

Julie :-)
Julie Plaster
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RE:Big Problem, need input 09 Mar 2009 17:30 #3

  • Rick Burten
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Julie Plaster wrote:
Rick,

Any ice slurry involved? Styro Pads Considered?

Julie :-)
No ice. Styrofoam was used early on(b/4 the horse went to the UofI) and seemed to help. However it was discontinued for a variety of reasons.

I also suggested it to the attending vet at the UofI and it was summarily dismissed.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Big Problem, need input 09 Mar 2009 17:37 #4

  • Rick Burten
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OldLineStateForge wrote:
6 weeks post incident here comes the abcessing phase. This is often more difficult then the original insult. Order some gluz-on plates from grand circuit. Cut off the toe tab, make up a steward clog hospital plate. Attach with Adhere with the package well set back, pack with magic cushion and change it every week.This package can usually be reset several times and saves the horse from the trauma of nails. If and when you get sole depth dress the toe back, slowly begin derotation. This will also allow future abcessing to hopefully vent through the dorsal aspect and not down / out through the sole. This is how I would proceed.

Thanks for the input, it is much appreciated. As I have not yet been called in to work on this horse, I am in the planning stages for a protocol.

Thus far, on paper, my protocol involves pulling the heels back somewhat(derotation), as necessary, building up wall length from heel to just at the point where p3 is trying to penetrate, and then using impression material under a clog that I will attach with screws and quite possibly, casting tape. All that toe needs to be addressed and I think that that can be accomplished once the clog or similar appliance is in place. I am also weighing the idea of using a Sigafoos type arrangement where I can add heel height externally, as indicated by the horse's comfort/behavior level Thus far, there has been no sign of abscessing. I do like the idea of the clog-based hospital plate arrangement and will give it some serious consideration . Again, thanks.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Big Problem, need input 09 Mar 2009 23:36 #5

  • mwmyersdvm
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My favorite is to fit a DalRic cuff with a wedge and GC roller shoe. I tape this on with 3 inch elasticon - two turns of elasticon around the hoof and then place the package and finish out the roll around the hoof and cuff with a couple of turns (not too tight here) around the heels. This way you can remove and adjust as needed dependent on how the horse responds. While the situation is pretty active, I don't like putting on anything I can't fairly easily remove if adjustment is needed. I would do a venogram on this horse to see where the circulation is currently and hope for the best.

The first film is highly suspicious of a sinker and this will need fast address with a very guarded prognosis.
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RE:Big Problem, need input 10 Mar 2009 10:05 #6

  • Jaye Perry
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Rick Burten....
So, What would you do? When I get them all copied, I'll start an album.

left front:



Right front:


get 'em loaded on the album and large size 'em. looks like there is some room for help.:)
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RE:Big Problem, need input 11 Mar 2009 02:45 #7

  • DB4L_901
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This thread is about my mare and here are larger versions of the raidographs.

Left Front
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n116/db4l90/LeftFront.jpg

Right Front
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n116/db4l90/RightFront-1.jpg
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RE:Big Problem, need input 11 Mar 2009 04:21 #8

  • Jaye Perry
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DB4L_901 wrote:
This thread is about my mare and here are larger versions of the raidographs.

Left Front
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n116/db4l90/LeftFront.jpg

Right Front
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n116/db4l90/RightFront-1.jpg

5 weeks, need some new rads. LF, distal tip changes, RF through the bottom of the foot.
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RE:Big Problem, need input 11 Mar 2009 18:31 #9

  • brian robertson
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Has the original shoer been apprised of this unfortunate situation?
If so, what was his response? If not, why not?
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RE:Big Problem, need input 11 Mar 2009 18:47 #10

  • Dave Whitaker
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brian robertson wrote:
Has the original shoer been apprised of this unfortunate situation?
If so, what was his response? If not, why not?


What possible benefit would that be to this horse at this point in time???


Rick, I tend to agree with Jaye here..... new rads, NOW..... I think your clog idea in your post above is probably a logical way to try to make this guy comfortable. I find that I am using more and more homemade wooden deals on these guys where I can screw rails, etc to the bottom to change and adapt without having to take the foot apart. Some of the best clinics around are only saving 10-15% of the ones that already look like the RF. Best of luck.

Dave


"Everything is for sale......some are just harder to buy than others......"
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RE:Big Problem, need input 11 Mar 2009 20:24 #11

  • reillyshoe
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Instead of a clog, why not dome some IM over the bottom of the foot? You would accomplish the same ease of breakover, but you might also be more effective in unloading the hoof wall? Since it is taped on, it would be much easier to check the foot and replace regularly.
I use a couple of different hardness IM for these applications.
P
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RE:Big Problem, need input 11 Mar 2009 22:21 #12

  • brian robertson
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Dave, this could be a case of farrier induced laminitis or possibly this horse had started down this path the night before and was a trainwreck waiting to happen.

If the damage is severe enough during the acute phase, the feet are numb, the horse will maybe exhibit an "odd" gait but will not be locked in the classic founder pose.

I watched a broodmare, that must have been a sinker, walk out of her stall one morning, without her front hooves and never limped. Bloody foot prints down the aisle; I picked up her hoof capsules from the stall which looked like someone slaughtered a hog in there.

The owner had foaled the mare 3 days earlier, the vet was there post partum for the mare/foal exam and no problems were noted. The mare was fine the night before but went south during the night.
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RE:Big Problem, need input 11 Mar 2009 23:07 #13

  • Dave Whitaker
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Brian,
Sorry, I misunderstood your motives....I thought you were on a "blame" witch hunt. I have found very little if any good ever comes out of running the guy down that cared for the horse before you get called in...

Dave


"Everything is for sale......some are just harder to buy than others......"
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RE:Big Problem, need input 12 Mar 2009 15:12 #14

reillyshoe wrote:


Instead of a clog, why not dome some IM over the bottom of the foot? You would accomplish the same ease of breakover, but you might also be more effective in unloading the hoof wall? Since it is taped on, it would be much easier to check the foot and replace regularly.
I use a couple of different hardness IM for these applications.

So, with this package, you simply have the impression material and tape? Use something like Elasticon? This doesnt load the solar surface too much?
Shane A. Westman
www.westmanequine.com

You can fix a lot of things, but you just can't fix st upid

i find it interesting that when you get to the very basics, in most situations little has changed.
When you get into specifics we have come a long way.

-...
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RE:Big Problem, need input 12 Mar 2009 18:38 #15

  • reillyshoe
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I can't say that I've had many problems with horses unable to bear weight on the sole, but then again how comfortable would you expect the horse to be?
I think the laminae have let go suddenly, but the sole is often in reasonable shale in the early stages of the chronic laminitis case. If they do not like the sole support, I can remove the pad and cut some IM away.
P
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