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TOPIC: IM vs silicone?

IM vs silicone? 16 Feb 2009 02:57 #1

  • HOSSBOSS
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Nowadays alot of us use IM for the support in the caudal area. But do any of you use silicone under pads for support? I know a farrier that likes to use it under his pads for founder in (i guess) certain cases.

Is silicone still used alot today?? Or does it give uneven pressure in the areas you're trying to support? Anyway's.... who the heck want's to wait for the silicone to set up??
What's you're take on this?
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RE:IM vs silicone? 16 Feb 2009 03:11 #2

  • T. Wm. HALL
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I used silicone until I was able to get Vettec products. I found that that silicone was degenerative to the sole because of it being acid based. I don't think that silicone holds shape well enough to give consistent support.

I don't know of any cases where I would use silicone over Sil-Pak or Equipak. For IM under spider pads and such, I often use Grand Circuit Blue and White.

Trevor Wm. Hall, CF
Hall's Horseshoeing
Redmond, Oregon U.S.A.
www.Hallshorseshoeing.com


He that would perfect his work must first sharpen his tools. ~Confuscius
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RE:IM vs silicone? 16 Feb 2009 03:22 #3

  • brian robertson
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Mix silicone with a little bondo hardner for a fast set 2-3 min; betadine for a slower set 5-6 min. have not had any sole issues in 30 some yrs.

For about 1/3 of my padded horses I use silicone, the others might get vettec product, oakum, Magic cushion, foam rubber, boat felt...
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RE:IM vs silicone? 16 Feb 2009 22:13 #4

  • Clint Burrell
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I too have found silicone a bit caustic to the soles,takes a long time to set as well.(never tried mixing w/ hardened) For the cost and convenience, the Sil-pack is very nice to work with. I haven't used silicone in probably 13-14 years. Before vet-tech, I mostly used oakum with various hoof packing's and sole paints.

Clint Burrell
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"You say your from collage,
but you don't seem to bright.
You just brought a swichblade
to a pistol fight"
Move On by Chris Knight
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RE:IM vs silicone? 16 Feb 2009 22:33 #5

  • calshoer
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I never liked what silicone did to the soles. They were always sort of rotten after 6 or 8 weeks under a pad. So if I'm not treating a laminitis or need extra frog or sole support for some other reason, I pack under pads with something medicated like Hawthornes sole pack or Magic Cushion
If I'm treating laminitis or peal osteitis, the main reason I use IM instead of any kind of pour in is because you can set it up perfectly flat with a taped on plate, then trim it OFF the areas of the foot where you need clearance (under the edge of the coffin bone) , before you place your shoe and pad.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:IM vs silicone? 17 Feb 2009 13:00 #6

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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calshoer in gray

I never liked what silicone did to the soles. They were always sort of rotten after 6 or 8 weeks under a pad.

If you paint the sole with any proprietary sole toughener or thrush medication before applying catalyzed silicone caulk, the sole will not appear to be "rotten" after six/eight weeks under a pad.

If I'm treating laminitis or peal osteitis, the main reason I use IM instead of any kind of pour in is because you can set it up perfectly flat with a taped on plate, then trim it OFF the areas of the foot where you need clearance (under the edge of the coffin bone) , before you place your shoe and pad.

If you mix off-the-shelf clear silicone caulk with an off-the-shelf catalyst containing benzoyl peroxide (e.g., Bondo Body Putty hardener) you can set it up perfectly flat using exactly the same technique for less than 1/4th the cost of dental impression material.

After the hoof is prepared for a shoe, squeeze enough silicone caulk on the solar surface to fill the cavity, squeeze a ribbon of catalyst atop the silicone (amount not critical), mix with a tongue depressor until the color is uniform, then scrápe the excess off level with wall. Next, you can either nail on the package or tape on a pad if you need to level the filler material before removing selected portions of filler as Patty described.

Depending on the temperature, the catalyzed silicone filler will set up in two-four minutes, sets up a slightly softer than DI material, and will not harden over time as will DI material.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:IM vs silicone? 17 Feb 2009 18:23 #7

  • Joey Aczon
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I'm gonna have to try that Mr Stovall. So you just mix it right there in the foot?
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:IM vs silicone? 17 Feb 2009 21:38 #8

  • brian robertson
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Joey, Am I on you ignore list?
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RE:IM vs silicone? 17 Feb 2009 23:25 #9

  • Joey Aczon
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Sorry, no you're not, I just haven't heard of mixing it in the foot. I've seen it done in a dixie cup then applied in the foot, but never mixed atop the foot. I think the hardener is a good idea, just not worth my time if I have to mix it seperately.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:IM vs silicone? 18 Feb 2009 01:16 #10

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Joey Aczon in gray

I'm gonna have to try that Mr Stovall. So you just mix it right there in the foot?


Mix it right there in the foot as Mr. Roberston suggested. It was certainly not my intention to supplant his excellent advice; rather, I was intent on comparing catalyzed silicone to dental impression material.

I've used both and my primary concern with using DI material under a pad is that the reaction is not self-limiting and the stuff will continue to harden throughout the shoeing period - which means the packing that is just right today may be creating sole pressure six weeks from now.

On the other hand, the reaction between silicone and benzoyl peroxide is self-limiting and if it's right today, it'll be right six weeks from today. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:IM vs silicone? 18 Feb 2009 04:44 #11

  • Joey Aczon
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I knew about the use of the product, like I said, my interest was more in the process.

Thanks anyhow guys.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:IM vs silicone? 18 Feb 2009 04:55 #12

This is a great post very informative.

I agree with Brian and Tom, easy to do and cost a heck of a lot less. Vettec's Silpak is silicone and hardener and it is fairly inexpensive, however not a lot of silicone for the price.

Some guys use two part silicone putty instead of IM and Equipak for support.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:IM vs silicone? 18 Feb 2009 04:59 #13

Joey Aczon wrote:
I knew about the use of the product, like I said, my interest was more in the process.

Thanks anyhow guys.

If your use to mixing tips and mixing two part putty's it is a learning curve. Try it a few times and it will become easy to do. Big tube of silicone and a caulking gun from Home depot or local hardware store for a few bucks is a good enough reason for me to give it a try. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:IM vs silicone? 18 Feb 2009 06:57 #14

  • reillyshoe
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Depending on the temperature, the catalyzed silicone filler will set up in two-four minutes, sets up a slightly softer than DI material, and will not harden over time as will DI material.

I have found impression material to remain very constant in hardness over time. Urethane products becaome harder over time. Equipak, for instance starts out around a 30 on the A Shore scale, but after six weeks averages around 60.
I haven't used the silicone/hardner trick, it sounds interesting.
P
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RE:IM vs silicone? 18 Feb 2009 14:20 #15

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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10Ha.Wood in gray, stuff deleted

One more thing, you can go ahead and paint the sole with Iodine, or any other water based thrush treatment or sole hardener. The silicone is not going to stick well anyway.

Most effective sole tougheners are aldehyde-based and use isopropyl alcohol as a carrier, not water.

I've always painted the sole with an aldehyde-based product before applying catalyzed silicone because doing so creates some degree of cross-linkage at the molecular level and creates a microbicidal environment at the application site. You're correct in that the silicone is not going to "stick" to the solar surface - but I don't want it to bond with the solar surface, I want the filler material to remain flexible under the pad and to peel out in one piece when the package is removed. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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