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TOPIC: Acute??

Acute?? 29 Dec 2008 02:24 #1

  • HOSSBOSS
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I have a horse with acute laminitis & the vet is coming asap to xray. I have the horse right now in podiatry foam pads which seem to help until the vet arives. My question is: when any horse is in the "acute" stage, how long can or will he be in pain until we could start shoeing?
I guess i mean the flair up of the lamnia inside the hoof itself? Is it days, weeks, months or does it depend on each horse & how much the coffin bone has rotated?

I will be working with the vet while treating this horse, but i'm just curious! My thanx goes out to Patty & other experts!!!:-)
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RE:Acute?? 29 Dec 2008 03:55 #2

HOSSBOSS wrote:
I have a horse with acute laminitis & the vet is coming asap to xray. I have the horse right now in podiatry foam pads which seem to help until the vet arives. My question is: when any horse is in the "acute" stage, how long can or will he be in pain until we could start shoeing?
I guess i mean the flair up of the lamnia inside the hoof itself? Is it days, weeks, months or does it depend on each horse & how much the coffin bone has rotated?

I will be working with the vet while treating this horse, but i'm just curious! My thanx goes out to Patty & other experts!!!:-)
hossboss at this point keep it in the foam until you can pick the foot up so you can get the shoeing package you need on the feet be it a sigfue/ steward clog or something alongthis line of shoe the sigfue you can glue. ya can use screws on the clog but that is jmo. bryan e
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RE:Acute?? 29 Dec 2008 04:06 #3

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RE:Acute?? 29 Dec 2008 10:26 #4

It does depend on the horse and it also depends on the situation. Is this horse foundering from to much grain, rich hay, bad hay or grain or is it cushings disease (cresty, excessive water drincker, thicker coat). If it is a diet issue the source can be fixed and the founder should subside depending on how long the horse has been in pain. If this situation is a thyriod issue than it will probably last longer. The Equine Specialty Hospital in north east Ohio recommends that we set a regular keg shoe back under P3 w/ the help of an x-ray of corse. How much depends on the level of break over needed and the level of rotation. Dr. Ogrady's site equi podiatry.com is a great site for almost any lamness.
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RE:Acute?? 29 Dec 2008 11:32 #5

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Northern Ohio Shoer wrote:
The Equine Specialty Hospital in north east Ohio recommends that we set a regular keg shoe back under P3 w/ the help of an x-ray of corse. How much depends on the level of break over needed and the level of rotation.
That's it? Just set a keg shoe back? What about additional mechanical support for the frog, commissures, bar and sole behind the true apex of p3?

Would you still set the shoe back if the sole corium and circumflex artery are in danger of being or already are, compromised?

What about wedging the heels up? Never? Ever?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
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Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Acute?? 29 Dec 2008 14:07 #6

In acute cases only where there is damage to the ddft will they recommend wedging. In most chronic cases they want me to remove more heel. In a couple cases they cut the ddft to avoid damage from removing heel. I should have mentioned before that they always want a thick full pad (draft pad) and then they have me pour equi-pak in, at least around the frog.
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RE:Acute?? 29 Dec 2008 19:07 #7

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HOSSBOSS wrote:
I have a horse with acute laminitis & the vet is coming asap to xray. I have the horse right now in podiatry foam pads which seem to help until the vet arives. My question is: when any horse is in the "acute" stage, how long can or will he be in pain until we could start shoeing?
I guess i mean the flair up of the lamnia inside the hoof itself? Is it days, weeks, months or does it depend on each horse & how much the coffin bone has rotated?

I will be working with the vet while treating this horse, but i'm just curious! My thanx goes out to Patty & other experts!!!:-)

we tend to wait 14 days ,┬┤before this the first aid with frog suport and so on ,dalric rehfix raised heels and so on then after 2 weeks the first shoeing and you tend to see how much damage ihas happend after 3-5 weeks ,,

the very acute period is the first 48-72 hours ,then it possible to lift the hooves ,,,bedding is also very helpful ,earth or sand ,wet and deep ...

ray.
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RE:Acute?? 30 Dec 2008 01:53 #8

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I wait until the are a grade 2 or better on the "OBEL" lameness scale, and evaluated OFF of bute.
That level on that lameness scale means they will willingly pick a foot up for you for brief periods, with maybe just a pad under the other foot, and will move around when you ask them without pushing or dragging them.

If you shoe them with them on drugs or before they are that stabilized, sometimes you get an ugly surprize phone call the next day, and end up pulling the whole package, or having to make some serious adjustments.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:Acute?? 30 Dec 2008 03:49 #9

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Northern Ohio Shoer wrote:
In acute cases only where there is damage to the ddft will they recommend wedging.

What kind of damage to the ddft occurs, why, and absent an ultra-sound or the like, how do the vets know if any damage has occurred?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Acute?? 30 Dec 2008 15:07 #10

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Based on the information I get from radiographs, I determine what package I think is needed and attach it to a set of DalRic cuffs that are fitted for the horse. These can then be taped on which will also let you know if the horse responds positively to the setup. The trick to really getting these to stay on is to put two turns of Elasticon on the hoof capsule and then place the cuff firmly in place and continue the wrap. The rough surface of the elasticon helps to lock into the inside of the cuff. You will have to use the heel bulbs for support so don't tighten too much in this area. These stay on well for a stalled horse. I often have to enforce to the owner that the horse must stay stalled as they can get pretty comfortable on a package they like. Reminding them there is no guarantee of the package stability and having it thrown into the woods will entail them paying for another package usually works well.
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RE:Acute?? 01 Jan 2009 08:06 #11

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HOSSBOSS wrote:
I have a horse with acute laminitis & the vet is coming asap to xray. I have the horse right now in podiatry foam pads which seem to help until the vet arives. My question is: when any horse is in the "acute" stage, how long can or will he be in pain until we could start shoeing?
I guess i mean the flair up of the lamnia inside the hoof itself? Is it days, weeks, months or does it depend on each horse & how much the coffin bone has rotated?

I will be working with the vet while treating this horse, but i'm just curious! My thanx goes out to Patty & other experts!!!:-)

The Acute stage will subside within 4-7 days of removing the trigger, the trigger can be either sugar based, too much grass, too much oaten or wheaten hay/chaff or too much grain or in some cases to much wall length or what is known as peripheral loading. One 28 year old arab I deal with ate a bag of concentrated food to himself and had acute laminitis but due to correct hoof shape he was able to be ridden a week later.

I can tell clients that within 2 weeks the horse will be sound as long as we know the cause of the laminitis this even works on pedal bone penetration. Keep the shoes off for at least the two weeks and to grow a hoof that is resistant to further laminitis get rid of the shoes, but that is just common sense.

As for removing rotation, if the rotation is new then trim as much out of the heels as you can this will minimise damage to the tip of the pedal bone. If the damage is long term plan on 5 degrees a month derotation and don't forget to trim the frog deeper than normal.

I used to think 2 weeks to a sound horse was pure luck, having done it so many times now it is just how wild horses survive laminitis episodes. With good hoof shape there is little to go wrong when laminitis happens no hoof capsule rotation no pressure sores under the tip of the pedal bone just inflammed laminae.

It is best to start with the pads but look at the shape of the hoof and the coronet band as it will tell you if there are secondary triggers and what extra you need to trim to stabilise the hoof. If you have pics of the hooves we can draw some lines on to demonstrate areas to panic about.

Just make sure you avoid heart bar shoes as they never provide the support claimed and never ever raise the heels as the toe is descending if you transfer more weight to the toe you will have a solar tissue necrosis from the weight on the sole. IE: pedal bone penetration which is really just a bed sore from to much height in the heels. DDFT is never the cause of rotation due to the fact when a pedal bone is near zero degrees palmar angle any pull of the DDFT is reduced a bit like a compound archery bow.
Regards
Darren Robertson, MHG

"Specialising in Barefoot trimming, Equine Muscular work for better Biomechanics, Helping horses move to the true form."
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RE:Acute?? 01 Jan 2009 09:07 #12

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the_unicorn wrote:
The Acute stage will subside within 4-7 days of removing the trigger, the trigger can be either sugar based, too much grass, too much oaten or wheaten hay/chaff or too much grain or in some cases to much wall length or what is known as peripheral loading. One 28 year old arab I deal with ate a bag of concentrated food to himself and had acute laminitis but due to correct hoof shape he was able to be ridden a week later.

I can tell clients that within 2 weeks the horse will be sound as long as we know the cause of the laminitis this even works on pedal bone penetration. Keep the shoes off for at least the two weeks and to grow a hoof that is resistant to further laminitis get rid of the shoes, but that is just common sense.

As for removing rotation, if the rotation is new then trim as much out of the heels as you can this will minimise damage to the tip of the pedal bone. If the damage is long term plan on 5 degrees a month derotation and don't forget to trim the frog deeper than normal.

I used to think 2 weeks to a sound horse was pure luck, having done it so many times now it is just how wild horses survive laminitis episodes. With good hoof shape there is little to go wrong when laminitis happens no hoof capsule rotation no pressure sores under the tip of the pedal bone just inflammed laminae.

It is best to start with the pads but look at the shape of the hoof and the coronet band as it will tell you if there are secondary triggers and what extra you need to trim to stabilise the hoof. If you have pics of the hooves we can draw some lines on to demonstrate areas to panic about.

Just make sure you avoid heart bar shoes as they never provide the support claimed and never ever raise the heels as the toe is descending if you transfer more weight to the toe you will have a solar tissue necrosis from the weight on the sole. IE: pedal bone penetration which is really just a bed sore from to much height in the heels. DDFT is never the cause of rotation due to the fact when a pedal bone is near zero degrees palmar angle any pull of the DDFT is reduced a bit like a compound archery bow.

Reading your post I get the impression that you've never worked on a bad one.
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