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TOPIC: Laminitis from lymes disease?

Laminitis from lymes disease? 30 May 2008 00:06 #1

  • HOSSBOSS
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Could calshoer or someone else please explain why horses with lymes disease get laminitis/founder?
A friend of mine works at a barn, where a farrier is workin on a gelding with laminitis/founder. They said the cause is from the horse having lymes disease.
Is it the toxins from the tick that get into the horses bloodstream that cause this to happen? Just curious! I never read an article on it or why it happens.
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 30 May 2008 00:21 #2

  • lonestar
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I dont believe the two are related.
Chris Schaeffner
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 30 May 2008 02:20 #3

  • Rightstep
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Maybe because the horses entire system has been compromised by the disease, it's metabolic rate has suddenly changed causing problems with it's current diet-hence the founder? It's a long shot but maybe.

The founder is most likely from diet and or hoofcare-not the disease
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 30 May 2008 02:58 #4

  • Katy Watts
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Cornell Vet. 1992 Jul;82(3):253-74.
Lyme borreliosis in cattle and horses: a review of the literature.
Parker JL, White KK.

Department of Veterinary Clinical Medicine and Surgery, College of Veterinary Medicine, Washington State University, Pullman 99164-6610.

A complete search of the literature concerning Lyme borreliosis as it relates to horses and cattle was done. The epidemiology, pathogenesis, immunological response to the disease, diagnosis and treatment are discussed. A review of clinical cases in horses and cattle is presented. Clinical signs of Lyme borreliosis in horses include: chronic weight loss, sporadic lameness, laminitis, low grade fever, swollen joints, muscle tenderness, and anterior uveitis. In addition to those clinical signs, neurological signs such as depression, behavioral changes, dysphagia, head tilt and encephalitis can be seen in chronic cases. Borreliosis occurs in cattle, usually as a herd problem. In acute Lyme borreliosis, cattle often will show a fever, stiffness, swollen joints, and decreased milk production. Chronic weight loss, laminitis and abortion are also possible outcomes of borreliosis in cattle. Diagnosis of clinical Lyme borreliosis is difficult and depends upon recognition of clinical signs, a history of possible exposure, and identification of the spirochete in the affected animal. Since the spirochete is very difficult to culture, confirmation of B. burgdorferi infection often relies on serologic testing. Subclinical seropositive animals do occur, thus confusing the diagnosis. An approach to treatment of cattle and horses with Lyme borreliosis is outlined.
Are you feeding your horse like a cow?
www.safergrass.org
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 30 May 2008 12:31 #5

  • lonestar
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I read that study. I It doesn't say " laminitis is caused by Lyme disease".
Chris Schaeffner
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 30 May 2008 14:41 #6

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Have a read of this:

http://www.liphookequinehosp.co.uk/Lymes.htm

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=48065&highlight=toxins#post48065

Put simply whenever a horse has a massive assault on its system then its likely resultant risk that laminitis will result.

Acids and toxins (bacterium) are produced which leak into the body and damage blood vessels and organs throughout the body. When blood vessels and cells that feed the feet are affected in this way the amount of blood flowing down to the sensitive laminae is reduced and they become swollen.

So laminitis is often a side effect or resultant symptom of such as lymes disease, grass sickness, poisoning, worm burden, etc etc etc.

Lyme Disease is a bacterial illness caused by the bacterium borrelia burgdorferi. Its the effects of this bacterium that basically causes the secondary problem of laminitis.
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 31 May 2008 03:40 #7

  • George Geist
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The subject of this thread was suffering from Lyme as well.
http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7255
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 31 May 2008 12:01 #8

  • lonestar
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Laminitis from lyme disease is rare.
Chris Schaeffner
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 01 Jun 2008 06:54 #9

  • ThomasRideandDrive
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^ What makes you say that???

Its ordinarily considered to be an associated symptom.
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 05 Apr 2011 19:56 #10

Read most of the thoughts on Lyme/laminitis and I doubt that I'll have much sucess in enlightening anyone.
I am in a endemic area for Lyme disease (LD). Which simply means if ur here u get it!
If u understand medicine and disease u realize the difference between "CAUSE" and "EFFECT". When referring to LD u are referring to the effect not the cause. Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb) the bacterial agent that produces lyme disease is composed of six different forms, seven different OUter Surface Protein (OSP) and over 300 different strains in the US and another 300 in Europe. This amounts to over 6x7x600=25,200 variants of Bb. Lyme disease as designated by the CDC must produce infection. And only one of the 25,200 variants (which is OSP-C-this is gene expression). Only one of those many variants are concidered by experts as Lyme disease.
Some studies indicate that Bb the spirochete-parasite is carried by all humans and probably all horses.
Bb the spirochete orginates in mud and sediment and most horses and wild life are exposed. Bb has a flaggella that allows it to "swim" thru any body tissue. It can also penetrate the lymphocyte, macrophage, endothelial and most other body cells.
Studies in humans have shown that if u have Bb u cannot kill it. Many of the variants of Bb exist without showing their presence unless altered or threatened. Antibodiotic, Dexamethasone, DMSO and some vaccines do threaten Bb and it alters its form. This is when the real trouble starts. CO2 is at present the only substance that alters gene expression of OSP-C. Once this happens infection and inflammation spreads and presents a "cascade of events", some resulting in Laminitis. In '93 my wife was diagnosed with MS/LD and my search began to understand this spirochete. Early on I was informed by an expert studing ticks that he would lose his job if he answered my questions.
To keep this short it is such that the orginal bite (migran rash) by a tick the size of a quarter contains over a million parasites that replicate (double ) every 24 hrs. A horse of four has "zillions" of this spirochete. Like most everything alive it must feed. It feeds on the glycoprotein/proteoglycans. This makes up the Extracellular Matrix (ECM) [space between the cells] that the Matrix metalloproteinease (MMP's) destroy that allow for seperation of the laminae, (Dr. Pollitt).
It has been reported that UC of Cal at Davis have shown by way of Pubmed (the national Library of medicine) that silver staining of the heart, liver, pancreaes, kidneys, lungs and most vital organs contain this spirochete.
Articles on Laminitis suggest that there are three forms of triggering mechanisms, inflammation, ischemia, and metaboic.
Of these it appears that Carbon dioxide (CO2), Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) and Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) may account for all three. With the help of Bb!
U can listen to the bull expressed by the CDC and NIH (National Institutes of Health) or search the subject outside of the US and see just what this bug can do.
If intetested look up work done Tom Grier. TY John
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RE:Laminitis from lymes disease? 06 Apr 2011 00:12 #11

  • mwmyersdvm
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lonestar wrote:
I dont believe the two are related.

"We know what we believe, but we only believe what we know" (Bill Moyer, DVM)

It is difficult to prove many of the causes of disease from the organisms that may trigger them. Lyme disease has been purported to cause everything from cancer to MS. It is a valid disease entity, but the number of syndromes it may cause are still under scrutiny. Laminitis is such a complex entity that the Borrelia organism could possibly be included in some of the triggers that set off an episode and doxycycline does have a positive effect on some lamintic cases, but doxycycline also has anti-inflammaory effects so this action cannot be discounted as the actual positive effect that is seen.

It can be a tough call, but if some of the better Lyme tests show that there may be concurrent Lyme disease brewing, it is prudent to treat it in the course of the total care for the horse.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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