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TOPIC: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect

Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 18 Apr 2012 19:05 #1

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16 y/o Spotted saddle with hx of WLD in R front hoof. Was out 24/7. Large resections X4. Coffin bone rotation 8-10 degrees. Used every product imaginable or suggested X 4 years. Have had 5 vets/ 7 sets of RADs/ 4 farriers. After 1 1/2 years in one boarding facility, moved to new one with new farrier and 12 hr night stalling. Hoof wall seemed to get better for about 1 1/2 years but has always had a sole defect (black line running from sole to coronary band) that needed to be pared out each trimming (5 weeks- I live in SE.) Still treat for WLD even though newest vet says that RADs show no sign of active WLD. Two trimmings ago, the good hoof started developing the same 'defect' in the same spot. This hoof has no rotation and no history of WLD. Vet and farrier say that RADs do not show any Keratoma... They are baffled. Latest vet suggested 'Natural Balance' shoes to keep pressure off of toes. He has had these only 1 week. Everybody is still scratching their head as to what this sole defect is. Nobody has seen anything similar. If anybody has any ideas of what this may be or what it is not, would appreciate any input. Horse has never taken a lame step in the 8 years of owning him....even after having 3/4 of his hoof resected sole to band, and even after rotation. (latest vet says he has an old navicular fx- no other vet found this with RADs) Wears front only shoes. Tried barefoot for about 1 1/2 months but his feet started to fall apart. Will attempt attachments
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 18 Apr 2012 19:06 #2

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The RADs are from 3 weeks ago before we reshod with Natural Balance shoes. Farrier admitted that heel was too high/toe too long. Working at taking toe/heel down slowly to better the angle. I do not gait with him as I prefer the posting trot and he has mostly lost his gait. He is purely a pleasure trail horse. I did notice that since the new shoes, when I canter him, he holds his head in normal mid line position....before he always held his nose toward ground. Thinking the new shoes are teaching him to put more balance on hind limbs and not so much on front??? Just spoke with farrier today and he is not fan of Natural Balance shoes but wants to make his own with same idea....setting shoe back the same amount that he can safely take off heel. Farrier went to conference this weekend and nobody there could say what is going on with the foot (never seen what is going on in toe before) and agreement seems to be....When he dies, lets to a biopsy. Not accepting that
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 18 Apr 2012 19:09 #3

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RADs above are in original shoes per how farrier was shoeing him. I was wondering if too much toe pressure could be causing a breakdown of the horn tissue in the toe/sole area??? The vet was suggesting that the rotated RF coffin bone could have some deterioration at the tip and might not be producing healthy horn in that area but this would not explain the new development of his healthy LF hoof doing the same thing...

Below is xray of LF 'good' hoof for any feedback on shoe setback/breakover.
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 01:10 #4

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In the view of the bottom of p3 it appears that there is a creche(notch) at the distal leading edge of the bone that corresponds to the sole defect which may explain why you continue to see the sole defect and probably always will. The fact that the area has been resected numerous times and yet the defect returns, would seem to bear this out.

Since your farrier is not a fan of NB shoes, I rather doubt he understands let alone correctly applies NB trimming and shoeing protocols so it is probably best if he takes a different approach. And, if he routinely trims the hooves as pictured, then you probably need a different farrier.

As to why this is now showing up in the 'good' hoof, perhaps there is now the beginnings of changes in the coffin bone that are being reflected in the sole. And maybe that's a function of his age, or his hoof care, or both, or something else entirely.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 01:37 #5

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Thank you for your input! Yes there is an 'eating away' (per vet) of the RF coffin bone. This is why vet suggested the horn may not be growing properly in that area. The LF coffin bone looks good and he had no explanation for the defect appearing ~ 3 months ago. In your opinion, could having too long toes/high heels and/or having shoe breakover placed too far forward contribute to toe/sole pressure/breakdown like this? I spend 3 summer months in another state and the farrier I use there is still included in this horses hoof care. This farrier is certified in Natural Balance shoes but also does not like to use them and instead creates his own. ( i have no issues with this as long as they work) The text message I received from him after sending him the xrays/photos was 'these hooves do not look healthy. Be careful how far back you set the shoe. The hoof wall may not handle it." My farrier here (next shoeing 5/16) is planning on placing his shoe back as much as he can take off of the heal safely. i.e. if he can trim 1/2 inch from heel than he will set shoe back 1/2 inch. He is conservative, which I do appreciate as I do not want any coffin bone fractures/other lameness issues. Just befuddled about why a healthy hoof would start developing the same toe/sole hole issue as a previously diseased and disected one? Thanks!!
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 01:39 #6

Rick- I think you mean crena, not creche.
Jake Hall CJF
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 14:17 #7

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Forge_Runner wrote:
Rick- I think you mean crena, not creche.
Yep, there's no thinking about it, I know you're correct. Mea culpa! Hmmm, I seem to have religion on my mind lately.........
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 14:24 #8

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HRHHorse wrote:
In your opinion, could having too long toes/high heels and/or having shoe breakover placed too far forward contribute to toe/sole pressure/breakdown like this?
In my opinion, It Depends. ;)
....... The text message I received from him after sending him the xrays/photos was 'these hooves do not look healthy.....'
No kidding.........:rolleyes:
My farrier here (next shoeing 5/16) is planning on placing his shoe back as much as he can take off of the heal safely. i.e. if he can trim 1/2 inch from heel than he will set shoe back 1/2 inch.
IMO, his logic/rationale is very flawed. Apparently he does not know how to map out the location of structures within the hoof capsule and then based on that, perform a correct trimming/shoeing protocol.
Just befuddled about why a healthy hoof would start developing the same toe/sole hole issue as a previously diseased and disected one? Thanks!!
Though perhaps not the case here, sometimes as Forrest Gump so accurately observed, "sh** happens"........
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
Last Edit: 19 Apr 2012 14:25 by Rick Burten.
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 18:13 #9

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Ha! Thanks. Farrier went to a seminar and had a consult with an 'expert' who told him abou the heel/set back thing..... Images with 1 week Natural B shoes attached.
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 18:14 #10

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Ha! Thanks. Farrier went to a seminar and had a consult with an 'expert' who told him abou the heel/set back thing..... Images with 1 week Natural B shoes attached.
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 18:15 #11

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Ha! Thanks. Farrier went to a seminar and had a consult with an 'expert' who told him abou the heel/set back thing..... Images with 1 week Natural B shoes attached.
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 18:22 #12

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Ha! Thanks. Farrier went to a seminar and had a consult with an 'expert' who told him abou the heel/set back thing..... Images with 1 week Natural B shoes attached.
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 19:13 #13

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your farrier might have consulted with an expert but he did not take any notice . forget any shoeing protocol for the minute and dress the foot properly first, then things will fall into place
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 19:45 #14

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Thank you Chris but since many people use different language when talking about horse feet I was wondering if you could define 'dress the foot properly'. This would be helpful to me.
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Re: Vet/farrier head scratcher sole/toe defect 19 Apr 2012 19:45 #15

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HRHHorse wrote:
Ha! Thanks. Farrier went to a seminar and had a consult with an 'expert' who told him abou the heel/set back thing.....
Was it at this seminar that said farrier became NB Certified? Or did he actually attend and successfully complete the ELPO certification program? If its the latter, then you should be able to find his name listed here: www.e-hoofcare.com/support/search/farrier/elpomemlist.html
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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