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TOPIC: Question about coffin bone size

Question about coffin bone size 05 Dec 2010 23:22 #1

  • Gabino
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I never heard or read about this question. In the case of unequals hooves, the size of coffin bone are equals or are different size?

If the both coffin bone are equals, the low hoof must considered "with flares"? If the coffin bone are equals, fit shoes with differents size could be considered no appropriate?

What do you think?
Gabino Fernández Baquero

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RE:Question about coffin bone size 06 Dec 2010 10:56 #2

  • solidrockshoer
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I figure if Duckett's Dot* (dd) is a static point, when you increase the angle of p3 the distance between DD and the front of the foot will decrease. Same goes for the distance between dd and the heels. If those two distances are decreasing, I'd say it's ok to use a smaller shoe if needed.

* - I mean between the deep flexor and extensor is static.
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RE:Question about coffin bone size 06 Dec 2010 17:10 #3

  • Ray_Knightley
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Very Good question ...I would say that on the low hoof the pedel bone has the same right shape ,but the hoof has left the bone..
On the high hoof I have the feeling that at least the shape is different not sure if the mass of bone is really less??

Good question!
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RE:Question about coffin bone size 09 Dec 2010 12:42 #4

That is a good question. I have imagined that the coffin bone in the upright/club foot is smaller that may depend on if it is a real club foot or not. Another question I have is how to tell the difference between a real club foot or result of injury. Some of these cases the low foot has all the aprearance of being massively loaded and may need all that mass especially in the back half of the foot and the upright foot is atrophied, with no difference in coffin bone sizes. Have seen where it depends on who is trimming and shoeing the horse. Attempts at matching feet seems to have resulted in lameness in the upright foot and as a result over loading of the normal foot. Over time the normal foot has that appearance of being over loaded. Get that Club foot trimmed and shod properly and I have seen the bigger foot come back to a normal looking foot.
Phil Armitage, CF
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RE:Question about coffin bone size 10 Dec 2010 19:15 #5

  • reillyshoe
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Gabino wrote:


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I never heard or read about this question. In the case of unequals hooves, the size of coffin bone are equals or are different size?

If the both coffin bone are equals, the low hoof must considered "with flares"? If the coffin bone are equals, fit shoes with differents size could be considered no appropriate?

What do you think?

The shape of the bone is different. Wolff's law states that bone remodels due to the forces acting on it. Just about everything we do to a hoof, including the application of shoes, therefore can be expected to influence the shape and structure of the bone.
P
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RE:Question about coffin bone size 11 Dec 2010 14:10 #6

  • Rick Talbert
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Great question Gabino. Bones are different, Patrick thanks for bringing up Wolff's Law, I looked up Julius Wolff, very interesting. Gabino, the bone in each hoof doesn't care whether it matches the other. This idea of aesthetic symmetry is more to please the eye of the owner not neccesarily the horse. P3 is going to adapt to the unique forces it endures. The shoe should fit the hoof. The farrier cannot expect to significantly alter a lifetime of orthopedic development. I think one often causes more problems than they solve by attempting to force one hoof to match another. Then we have the "whole horse" concept, and matching the shoulders etc. We can play around with that, but I think you are always going to be limited by P3 when it comes to altering the hoof itself.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Question about coffin bone size 11 Dec 2010 15:14 #7

Rick Talbert wrote:
Great question Gabino. Bones are different, Patrick thanks for bringing up Wolff's Law, I looked up Julius Wolff, very interesting. Gabino, the bone in each hoof doesn't care whether it matches the other. This idea of aesthetic symmetry is more to please the eye of the owner not neccesarily the horse. P3 is going to adapt to the unique forces it endures. The shoe should fit the hoof. The farrier cannot expect to significantly alter a lifetime of orthopedic development. I think one often causes more problems than they solve by attempting to force one hoof to match another. Then we have the "whole horse" concept, and matching the shoulders etc. We can play around with that, but I think you are always going to be limited by P3 when it comes to altering the hoof itself.

Well said Rick, I would like to print this out on business size cards. To hand out to horse owners when they start asking questions about their horses feet not matching. Would save me a lot of headaches. :D
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Question about coffin bone size 14 Dec 2010 15:04 #8

I think it was Dr. Redden who said if you want a horse with symetrical feet, breed one with just one in the middle. The build of a horse, with legs on each corner, is sure to ruin every symmetry that might have been there.

I'm not sure if there was any research on it but I'm pretty convident that the variations in coffin bone shape are vastly outnumbered by the variations in feet shape though.

Great remarks by previous posters, thanks guys.


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Question about coffin bone size 14 Dec 2010 16:08 #9

  • reillyshoe
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It is also worth pointing out that the differences in bones are not limited to the outer shape, but the density of the bone can change, as can the thickness of the cortex. This remodeling process can occur very quickly, and is not limited to the horse:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/08/050821233037.htm
P
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RE:Question about coffin bone size 14 Dec 2010 16:47 #10

As to hoof symmetry, I found one of Brian Hampson's (Wild Horse Research Center) comments very interesting and thought provoking. The comment was based on measurements taken during a study of hoof conformation of the Australian feral horses and the effect the environment has on hoof shape.

"...There was very little difference between the medial and lateral hoof wall angles in the feral horse feet. In some cases, particularly in the hard substrate groups, there was no significant difference between the two. This means, if we picked up a foot we would be unable to identify it as a left or a right foot. In contrast, domestic horses typically have a large distinction between the medial and lateral wall angles." - Foot Conformation of the Australian Feral Horse, Brian Hampson, The Farriers Journal 06/2010 pg 11
Shane A. Westman
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You can fix a lot of things, but you just can't fix st upid

i find it interesting that when you get to the very basics, in most situations little has changed.
When you get into specifics we have come a long way.

-...
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RE:Question about coffin bone size 26 Dec 2010 20:24 #11

  • jack-mac
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horseshoeguy wrote:
As to hoof symmetry, I found one of Brian Hampson's (Wild Horse Research Center) comments very interesting and thought provoking. The comment was based on measurements taken during a study of hoof conformation of the Australian feral horses and the effect the environment has on hoof shape.

"...There was very little difference between the medial and lateral hoof wall angles in the feral horse feet. In some cases, particularly in the hard substrate groups, there was no significant difference between the two. This means, if we picked up a foot we would be unable to identify it as a left or a right foot. In contrast, domestic horses typically have a large distinction between the medial and lateral wall angles." - Foot Conformation of the Australian Feral Horse, Brian Hampson, The Farriers Journal 06/2010 pg 11
Unfortunately in this world there will always be the self appointed with no qualification in the subject matter they write of & those who will embrace the nonsense of there writings.

I have not read a mention of cartilage on this thread.
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