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TOPIC: Coffin Bone growth plate(s)?

Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 00:56 #1

I am trying to verify sources to confirm or deny that the equine coffin bone has a growth plate(s) or not.

If so, closed before birth or at birth?

Why would it be important?

Thanks,
Julie :-)
Julie Plaster
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 01:13 #2

  • tbloomer
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I can't recall which reference I read about it, but to my recollection, yes P3 has a epiphysial plate which closes before birth.

Might drop an email to Allie Hayes and see if she has some examples of prenatal foal limbs.

http://www.horsescience.com/

It would be important if you expected it to be on an anatomy test. ;)
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 01:26 #3

I don't find any references in my books ( Adams,etc.) but several references to P3 being " soft" until 2-3yrs. of age in online articles. Not specifically to your question but a reference here http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vth/ehc-sp/ehic/cbf.html
Richard Mercer.
www.oldlinestateforge.com
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 01:26 #4

tbloomer wrote:
I can't recall which reference I read about it, but to my recollection, yes P3 has a epiphysial plate which closes before birth.

Might drop an email to Allie Hayes and see if she has some examples of prenatal foal limbs.

http://www.horsescience.com/

It would be important if you expected it to be on an anatomy test. ;)


Tom,

Thanks, I will email her. Just going to her website makes me want to spend money. :D I recently had the Basic 3-D Model with Magnets in my hands. Very nice.
Julie Plaster
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 01:38 #5

Growth of Other Bones
Other bones in the limb, such as the block shaped "cuboidal" bones in the knee and hock, the sesamoid bones at the back of the fetlock, and the proximal phalanx ( P3), also develop and mature by the process of endochondral ossification. However, these bones do not have physes and epiphyses. The cuboidal bones progressively ossify from their centers to their articular surfaces, and P3 ossifies from it's body and from three distinct secondary ossification centers: one at the base of the extensor process and one at each wing ( medial and lateral).

From:
Equine Podiatry
Andrea Floyd, Richard Mansmann
page 206
Richard Mercer.
www.oldlinestateforge.com
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 01:47 #6

Richard Mercer wrote:
Growth of Other Bones
Other bones in the limb, such as the block shaped "cuboidal" bones in the knee and hock, the sesamoid bones at the back of the fetlock, and the proximal phalanx ( P3), also develop and mature by the process of endochondral ossification. However, these bones do not have physes and epiphyses. The cuboidal bones progressively ossify from their centers to their articular surfaces, and P3 ossifies from it's body and from three distinct secondary ossification centers: one at the base of the extensor process and one at each wing ( medial and lateral).

From:
Equine Podiatry
Andrea Floyd, Richard Mansmann
page 206

Thank you :-)

Very interesting! Do they cite anything?
Julie Plaster
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 04:52 #7

  • Donnie Walker
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Proximal coffin bone & proximal cannon close before birth. Distal long and distal short pastern close before birth or up to 1 month or 1 week after birth respectively.

Practical Guide To Lameness in Horses
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 12:50 #8

  • irishcas
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I had a limb from a foal that was stillborn, there was no growth plate at P3, but the distal end of P2 and P1 both had growth plates. Navicular bone was TEENY, crumbled in my hands after I dug it back up.

Coffin bone was interesting, I have pix, had a hard time finding a good back drop to capture the distortion in the bone. Not symmetrical at all, it was interesting.
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Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 14:31 #9

Hi Kim
Looking at the shape can you confirm this is a hind P3, great pictures and with this insight I wonder why we spend our lives trying to make a foot symmetrical ??? Just a thought
Derek Poupard CJF, Dip WCF
www.quixshoe.com
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 15:16 #10

dpoupard wrote:
Hi Kim
Looking at the shape can you confirm this is a hind P3, great pictures and with this insight I wonder why we spend our lives trying to make a foot symmetrical ??? Just a thought

Left hind.

I'd want to get a radiograph of that just for fun.

Great photos Kim! Thank you! :cool:
Julie Plaster
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 16:28 #11

  • irishcas
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Hi Guys:

No idea which limb it was, someone brought them to an event I was at, 4 of us got one limb each, but I never saw the body ;) I saved the capsule but couldn't prevent it from drying out distorted.

I do have the rest of the limb, I'll go find it and photograph it along with the growth plates if you all want to see it.
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 19:47 #12

Donnie Walker wrote:
Proximal coffin bone & proximal cannon close before birth. Distal long and distal short pastern close before birth or up to 1 month or 1 week after birth respectively.

Practical Guide To Lameness in Horses
I never heard of a proximal nor a distal coffin bone ???
Nor a proximal cannon bone . . . ???
There is only one on each limb

The below is generaly accepted in the Equine and medical world.
The epiphyseal growth plates in the distal end of each major bone in the limb of the horse
Limb Bones - Closure Times
Short Pastern Bone (P2)...........3 mo.
Long Pastern Bone (P1)............6 mo.
Cannon Bone (M3)...................9 mo.
Tibia.....................................8 mo.
Radius...................................24 mo.
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 20:48 #13

  • Donnie Walker
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Bradley-1stChoice wrote:
I never heard of a proximal nor a distal coffin bone ???
Nor a proximal cannon bone . . . ???
There is only one on each limb

The below is generaly accepted in the Equine and medical world.
The epiphyseal growth plates in the distal end of each major bone in the limb of the horse
Limb Bones - Closure Times
Short Pastern Bone (P2)...........3 mo.
Long Pastern Bone (P1)............6 mo.
Cannon Bone (M3)...................9 mo.
Tibia.....................................8 mo.
Radius...................................24 mo.

There is a proximal end and a distal end of each bone to which you refer, so I assume the authors took that into consideration when they published their dialogue regarding closure times.
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 21:56 #14

  • Rightstep
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"Coffin bone was interesting, I have pix, had a hard time finding a good back drop to capture the distortion in the bone. Not symmetrical at all, it was interesting."

I wonder how many symmetrical coffin bones you have seen?...I have yet to see one.

Jen states
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RE:Coffin Bone growth plate(s)? 24 Oct 2009 22:09 #15

  • irishcas
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Rightstep wrote:
"Coffin bone was interesting, I have pix, had a hard time finding a good back drop to capture the distortion in the bone. Not symmetrical at all, it was interesting."

I wonder how many symmetrical coffin bones you have seen?...I have yet to see one.

Jen states

Jen:

I put that up as a tickle to the BUA. I was told many moons ago by a variety of professional BUAers that all babies are born with perfect coffin bones and it is humans that mess up feet.

Via stalling, lack of movement, improper diet, blanketing, improper trimming and yada yada yada.

That is where my statement grew from.

Thanks though for the thoughts.
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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