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TOPIC: Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays.

RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 01:07 #31

  • calshoer
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every thing has variables in it, and you don't use the same methods on a disfigured hoof as you do on a nice hunter type foot.
Why would you not use the same method to find the COA on a disfigured foot as a good foot? Particularly considering that the disfigured foot is going to be harder to just "read" , and given that there are certain external anatomical structures that do not seem to lose their relationship with the coffin joint even on a disfigured foot, wouldn't a disfigured foot be the one MOST needing a good anatomical mapping method to find the true COA if you lacked X-rays?
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 01:11 #32

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By the way personally I never use the widest part of the foot as a reference to find the COA. I found more than once that especially on very distorted (migrated) hoofcapsules, the COA in my measurements were more precise than when determined with the widest part of the foot reference.


Ronald Aalders
It is HOW you find the widest part of the foot that my be difficult in distorted feet . Simply trying to see or measure it in the sole is not enough, as shown in my picture I posted. However, using at least three methods to find it ,which we do in NB, has proven (checked radio graphically in many horses) to be very accurate even in migrated, distorted feet. This multiple way of mapping it has proven to work for me personally over the years with the cases in which I was able to get radiographs after the shoeing, and in the most recent completed ELPO research project has also shown it to work. . http://www.e-hoofcare.com/research/wpotf-start.htm
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 05:30 #33

ladyblacksmith wrote:
every thing has variables in it, and you don't use the same methods on a disfigured hoof as you do on a nice hunter type foot.


Well, actually I do :D


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 12:55 #34

calshoer wrote:
Why would you not use the same method to find the COA on a disfigured foot as a good foot? Particularly considering that the disfigured foot is going to be harder to just "read" , and given that there are certain external anatomical structures that do not seem to lose their relationship with the coffin joint even on a disfigured foot, wouldn't a disfigured foot be the one MOST needing a good anatomical mapping method to find the true COA if you lacked X-rays?

Because Dear you have to take inconsideration as conformation; what the horse does; habits ect.
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 12:56 #35

Ronald Aalders wrote:
Well, actually I do :D


Ronald Aalders

Me too! but I do take into consideration on conformation, what the horse does, habits ect. just like I expained to Patty, dear.
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 15:15 #36

ladyblacksmith wrote:
Because Dear you have to take inconsideration as conformation; what the horse does; habits ect.

Whhhhhhhhat??? Meadow muffins to that. Mechanically, the COA DOES NOT change due to what the horse does, confirmation, yada, yada, yada. I have to wholeheartedly agree with CalShoer on this one. Careful Linda, especially in the anatomy arena, Patty is at an expert level. Tangling with her on this is like jumping into an arena full of lions thinking you can whoop their butt bare handed. It will only lead to annihalation and embarressment.

If this were true and the horse was jumping one day, doing dressage the next and cross country eventing on the third do you mean to tell me that the COA is going to be in three different places on three different days?????? I'm thinking.........um......NO.:eek:
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 15:39 #37

How come so many on this thread are not following the rules with regard to signing their names?

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11244
Karen Standefer
Southern Oregon
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 15:43 #38

GiddyapGirl wrote:
Whhhhhhhhat??? Meadow muffins to that. Mechanically, the COA DOES NOT change due to what the horse does, confirmation, yada, yada, yada. I have to wholeheartedly agree with CalShoer on this one. Careful Linda, especially in the anatomy arena, Patty is at an expert level. Tangling with her on this is like jumping into an arena full of lions thinking you can whoop their butt bare handed. It will only lead to annihalation and embarressment.

If this were true and the horse was jumping one day, doing dressage the next and cross country eventing on the third do you mean to tell me that the COA is going to be in three different places on three different days?????? I'm thinking.........um......NO.:eek:

horses are sometimes born with deformaties; just like other animals.
How do you measure the COS on a foal born with half a foot; or when on cellular splicing in utero; and parts of it are in the inside of belly?
Linda Marie
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 15:47 #39

  • Cyber Farrier
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Where is your full name at the end of your posts? You want you posts deleted?

Baron
“Suppose you were an ******. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
- Mark Twain

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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 15:48 #40

Cyber Farrier wrote:
Where is your full name at the end of your posts? You want you posts deleted?

Baron

it is Linda Marie.
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 16:18 #41

ladyblacksmith wrote:
horses are sometimes born with deformaties; just like other animals.
How do you measure the COS on a foal born with half a foot; or when on cellular splicing in utero; and parts of it are in the inside of belly?
Linda Marie

That's not really what you were saying, however. You said:

"Because Dear you have to take inconsideration as conformation; what the horse does; habits ect."

So, with regard to your comments, which I quoted above, how would the center of articulation differ with regard to the horse's conformation, what it does and what habits it forms, etc.?
Karen Standefer
Southern Oregon
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 16:34 #42

KarenStandefer wrote:
That's not really what you were saying, however. You said:

"Because Dear you have to take inconsideration as conformation; what the horse does; habits ect."

So, with regard to your comments, which I quoted above, how would the center of articulation differ with regard to the horse's conformation, what it does and what habits it forms, etc.?

The conformation does come under what if you have a severly clubbed, and and a severly contracted tendon that make this horse walk on the front part of it's coronary band. Where is the true COA? Also in DLSD; where is the true COA in the foot to measure. Also in servere contracter when the frog is totally and fully inclosed and the foot in and under itself into a deformaty rolled totally under itself; how do you measure to the COA?
Or in rare occasions a double foot on one side; which comes from one twin absorbs another?

I saw this one for myself!!!!!
How would you find the COA in a petrified foot; yes a petrified foot that is so deformed and grose?
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 17:00 #43

ladyblacksmith wrote:
"Because Dear you have to take inconsideration as conformation; what the horse does; habits ect."

You still haven't answered my question:

How would the center of articulation differ with regard to the horse's conformation, what it does and what habits it forms, etc.?
Karen Standefer
Southern Oregon
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 17:46 #44

KarenStandefer wrote:
You still haven't answered my question:

How would the center of articulation differ with regard to the horse's conformation, what it does and what habits it forms, etc.?

I was coming out of left field with a trick answer to an untrick question.

I was being phasious and kidding.

The COA never changes, but thinking outside the box: what about in the cases of deformaties.
Now that would be a good debate.
Especially since I was able to see a true petrified hoof and a
living horse. Where is the COA on a petrified hoof?
You couldn't trim it; because blood would come out immediately, and it was very deformed. you could never balance the foot out? so how do you get a balanced trim on a horse like that; when the rest of the feet are normal. This was a hind foot too.
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RE:Finding Center of Articulation...without x rays. 14 Oct 2009 18:08 #45

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Ummm... Linda, what part of signing your posts, all of them, with a full name is not being understood? Please, it's not that difficult.

Baron
“Suppose you were an ******. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
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