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TOPIC: Keratoma

RE:Keratoma 12 May 2009 19:07 #16

  • reillyshoe
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We like to keep the surgery under the most ideal conditions possible and this is why we debride and shoe most of these in the operating room.
It is impossible to make a hoof sterile, but I prefer the most aseptic conditions possible.
P
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RE:Keratoma 12 May 2009 19:59 #17

reillyshoe wrote:
We like to keep the surgery under the most ideal conditions possible and this is why we debride and shoe most of these in the operating room.
It is impossible to make a hoof sterile, but I prefer the most aseptic conditions possible.


Thank you.
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RE:Keratoma 12 May 2009 21:29 #18

  • Red Amor
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Its amasing isnt it
We see hoofes cut in half be wire , tin class what ever some times these havent been noticed for some time days ?the bones exposed covered in mud poo whatever and the have no trouble
yet someone goes to the trouble to be very clean n tidy and the reched animal end up dieing septic
If Im alowed to I like to put the extra efort in to help
sometimes were not and we still get lucky?:confused:
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
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RE:Keratoma 12 Jun 2009 10:36 #19

  • solidrockshoer
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The majority are caused by letting clips back to far or anther foreign body creating pressure, address the removal of pressure or foreign body causing it and in most cases they will resolve them self over time with out drastic measures.:)
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RE:Keratoma 16 Dec 2010 21:19 #20

Hello I hope you dont mind me talking about my experience.. It is very close to my heart.. I lost my boy only 3 days ago due to complications to a keratoma.

a little about me and my horse.

Ollie (my horse) was a 16.1HH 7/8th TB gelding 19 years of age.
Live on my farm in England UK
Had horses since i was 4 and im now 23
owned him for 8 years

It all started with on and off lameness and I put it down to his older age, until my farrier told me he suspects a tumour.
I got the vet straight away, who suggested an operation under general anaesthetic. He was operated on a week later after the x-rays showed the tumour. The tumour was removed from the front of the hoof, about 1 inch in width and about 3/4 inch from the top of his coronary band.

He came home 3 days later and was told to box rest and the vet gave me enough bute to last 2 weeks.
My farrier came out and put a heart bar just on his left (bad foot) and a normal shoe on the right
I carried on with the dressing every 3 days (which was what the vet suggested) although I did do it more ofen if it didnt look so good.

A month passed and I carried on, I then called the vet as I had no follow up directions or advise.. who came to check him and didnt even lift his foot, just had a glace and told me to keep dressing.

His foot was growing quite well and had grown like a 'shell' cover like protective over the opening.

She did however say he could be turned out on a small paddock (this was only 4-6 weeks after his op)
I thought nothing of it and turned him out.. 2 weeks past when he came in very lame.. I rang my vet and spoke to the owner who basically said he shouldnt be out yet.. I asked him to come out.. him replying to give him more bute and see how he goes... two days past and he was still not right, I rang again and spoke to a different vet and again he told me to keep buting.

I made the decision to get the advise from another vet.. his first reaction was 'had he not had a follow up x-ray?' in which he hadnt. We made the decision to x-ray immedietly

The x-rays where devestating.. His pedal bone had rotated and dropped.. it wasnt good. It was approx 3 months from his op and it was suspected that the tumour had returned.

I chose not to operate on him again..

My vet and my farrier worked together and concluded that is was worth a try.. He was box rested and shut in for another 6 weeks. Some days he was good.. others not quite so good. I tried to reduce his bute but he was best on 4 sachets of danilon (his maximum amount). I wanted him as comfortable as possible.

I really hope you dont mind me sharing this with you. I dont quite know what to think.. was this bad luck or negilence of myself or the vet?
I put so much into this and it breaks my heart to think I put him through so much..

He was put to sleep on the 13th dec. His pedal bone had dropped further and although eating and walking in his stable, he was in severe pain but it was the right decision.

I feel so angry with my previous vet, who I feel let me down .. telling me he could go out and with no follow up care..

Be honest but do you think Im just trying to blame someone? and it was just bad luck?

Thanks to those who read this and offer me advise
Nicola
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RE:Keratoma 16 Dec 2010 21:26 #21

Hello I hope you dont mind me talking about my experience.. It is very close to my heart.. I lost my boy only 3 days ago due to complications to a keratoma.

a little about me and my horse.

Ollie (my horse) was a 16.1HH 7/8th TB gelding 19 years of age.
Live on my farm in England UK
Had horses since i was 4 and im now 23
owned him for 8 years

It all started with on and off lameness and I put it down to his older age, until my farrier told me he suspects a tumour.
I got the vet straight away, who suggested an operation under general anaesthetic. He was operated on a week later after the x-rays showed the tumour. The tumour was removed from the front of the hoof, about 1 inch in width and about 3/4 inch from the top of his coronary band.

He came home 3 days later and was told to box rest and the vet gave me enough bute to last 2 weeks.
My farrier came out and put a heart bar just on his left (bad foot) and a normal shoe on the right
I carried on with the dressing every 3 days (which was what the vet suggested) although I did do it more ofen if it didnt look so good.

A month passed and I carried on, I then called the vet as I had no follow up directions or advise.. who came to check him and didnt even lift his foot, just had a glace and told me to keep dressing.

His foot was growing quite well and had grown like a 'shell' cover like protective over the opening.

She did however say he could be turned out on a small paddock (this was only 4-6 weeks after his op)
I thought nothing of it and turned him out.. 2 weeks past when he came in very lame.. I rang my vet and spoke to the owner who basically said he shouldnt be out yet.. I asked him to come out.. him replying to give him more bute and see how he goes... two days past and he was still not right, I rang again and spoke to a different vet and again he told me to keep buting.

I made the decision to get the advise from another vet.. his first reaction was 'had he not had a follow up x-ray?' in which he hadnt. We made the decision to x-ray immedietly

The x-rays where devestating.. His pedal bone had rotated and dropped.. it wasnt good. It was approx 3 months from his op and it was suspected that the tumour had returned.

I chose not to operate on him again..

My vet and my farrier worked together and concluded that is was worth a try.. He was box rested and shut in for another 6 weeks. Some days he was good.. others not quite so good. I tried to reduce his bute but he was best on 4 sachets of danilon (his maximum amount). I wanted him as comfortable as possible.

I really hope you dont mind me sharing this with you. I dont quite know what to think.. was this bad luck or negilence of myself or the vet?
I put so much into this and it breaks my heart to think I put him through so much..

He was put to sleep on the 13th dec. His pedal bone had dropped further and although eating and walking in his stable, he was in severe pain but it was the right decision.

I feel so angry with my previous vet, who I feel let me down .. telling me he could go out and with no follow up care..

Be honest but do you think Im just trying to blame someone? and it was just bad luck?

Thanks to those who read this and offer me advise
Nicola
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RE:Keratoma 16 Dec 2010 21:59 #22

  • david a hall
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Nicola I'm very sorry about your horse, its very easy to apportion blame and search for answers with hindsight, obviously being turned out wasnt a good idea, i have been involved in quite a few of these now and they all run different paths, depending on the size of the resection and the extent of the invasion of P3.
The only hard and fast rule is belt and braces as far as pre-emptive care goes, i havent had one founder, but got called in to deal with one that had and that just seamed to be unfortunate and no apparent reason.
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RE:Keratoma 16 Dec 2010 23:05 #23

  • Rick Talbert
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jim-suny wrote:
The majority are caused by letting clips back to far or anther foreign body creating pressure, address the removal of pressure or foreign body causing it and in most cases they will resolve them self over time with out drastic measures.:)

respectfully, I am not sure where you got this information.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Keratoma 16 Dec 2010 23:25 #24

  • Rick Talbert
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not as gruesome as some, but caught early. Blood was yet to come, but this was the prep job.
Attachments:
Rick Talbert
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RE:Keratoma 25 Dec 2010 04:01 #25

  • jack-mac
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nicolam1987 wrote:
Hello I hope you dont mind me talking about my experience.. It is very close to my heart.. I lost my boy only 3 days ago due to complications to a keratoma.

a little about me and my horse.

Ollie (my horse) was a 16.1HH 7/8th TB gelding 19 years of age.
Live on my farm in England UK
Had horses since i was 4 and im now 23
owned him for 8 years

It all started with on and off lameness and I put it down to his older age, until my farrier told me he suspects a tumour.
I got the vet straight away, who suggested an operation under general anaesthetic. He was operated on a week later after the x-rays showed the tumour. The tumour was removed from the front of the hoof, about 1 inch in width and about 3/4 inch from the top of his coronary band.

He came home 3 days later and was told to box rest and the vet gave me enough bute to last 2 weeks.
My farrier came out and put a heart bar just on his left (bad foot) and a normal shoe on the right
I carried on with the dressing every 3 days (which was what the vet suggested) although I did do it more ofen if it didnt look so good.

A month passed and I carried on, I then called the vet as I had no follow up directions or advise.. who came to check him and didnt even lift his foot, just had a glace and told me to keep dressing.

His foot was growing quite well and had grown like a 'shell' cover like protective over the opening.

She did however say he could be turned out on a small paddock (this was only 4-6 weeks after his op)
I thought nothing of it and turned him out.. 2 weeks past when he came in very lame.. I rang my vet and spoke to the owner who basically said he shouldnt be out yet.. I asked him to come out.. him replying to give him more bute and see how he goes... two days past and he was still not right, I rang again and spoke to a different vet and again he told me to keep buting.

I made the decision to get the advise from another vet.. his first reaction was 'had he not had a follow up x-ray?' in which he hadnt. We made the decision to x-ray immedietly

The x-rays where devestating.. His pedal bone had rotated and dropped.. it wasnt good. It was approx 3 months from his op and it was suspected that the tumour had returned.

I chose not to operate on him again..

My vet and my farrier worked together and concluded that is was worth a try.. He was box rested and shut in for another 6 weeks. Some days he was good.. others not quite so good. I tried to reduce his bute but he was best on 4 sachets of danilon (his maximum amount). I wanted him as comfortable as possible.

I really hope you dont mind me sharing this with you. I dont quite know what to think.. was this bad luck or negilence of myself or the vet?
I put so much into this and it breaks my heart to think I put him through so much..

He was put to sleep on the 13th dec. His pedal bone had dropped further and although eating and walking in his stable, he was in severe pain but it was the right decision.

I feel so angry with my previous vet, who I feel let me down .. telling me he could go out and with no follow up care..

Be honest but do you think Im just trying to blame someone? and it was just bad luck?

Thanks to those who read this and offer me advise
Nicola
Sadly you had two mor-ons working on your horse.The first mor-on was most likely the clown that caused the Keratoma in the first place.The second mor-on with the assistants of the first mor-on decided to cut it out. Negligence is an understatement.
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RE:Keratoma 25 Dec 2010 09:23 #26

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Rick Talbert wrote:
not as gruesome as some, but caught early. Blood was yet to come, but this was the prep job.
What is the history of this horse ? & what are you hoping to achieve ?.
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RE:Keratoma 27 Dec 2010 22:45 #27

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jack-mac wrote:
Sadly you had two mor-ons working on your horse.The first mor-on was most likely the clown that caused the Keratoma in the first place.The second mor-on with the assistants of the first mor-on decided to cut it out. Negligence is an understatement.

As many times as you get banned, you just don't seem to get the idea of what constitutes poor behavior. While you are most certainly entitled to an opinion, all you have done is start more name calling. Exactly what in the owners post would enable you to qualify the vet as a "*****" and the farrier as a "*****"? What exactly causes a keratoma, as this is part of their "*****" designation? Why should we believe your opinion, as opposed to those who have seen the horse?
I would suggest that your presumptions are the only "negligent" behavior here.
P
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RE:Keratoma 28 Dec 2010 00:39 #28

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reillyshoe wrote:
As many times as you get banned, you just don't seem to get the idea of what constitutes poor behaviour. While you are most certainly entitled to an opinion, all you have done is start more name calling. Exactly what in the owners post would enable you to qualify the vet as a "*****" and the farrier as a "*****"? What exactly causes a keratoma, as this is part of their "*****" designation? Why should we believe your opinion, as opposed to those who have seen the horse?
I would suggest that your presumptions are the only "negligent" behaviour here.
Well considering I do know what causes keratoma & can replicate them if I wished to be that daft & incompetent, just might have something to do with my poor manners & less then ethical literary terminology towards there conduct .
Maybe its best you give us your full extent of knowledge on there occurrences. Then the good forum folk can rally behind your brilliance & embrace your piffle on merit . affording me the opportunity to refrain from having to writing a hypothesis on my thoughts of you.
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RE:Keratoma 28 Dec 2010 00:51 #29

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jack-mac wrote:
Well considering I do know what causes keratoma & can replicate them if I wished to be that daft & incompetent, just might have something to do with my poor manners & less then ethical literary terminology towards there conduct .
Maybe its best you give us your full extent of knowledge on there occurrences. Then the good forum folk can rally behind your brilliance & embrace your piffle on merit . affording me the opportunity to refrain from having to writing a hypothesis on my thoughts of you.

Au contraire, as there is no published evidence accounting for the cause of keratomas I think you should state it here. Several cases I have been involved with are recounted in an upcoming paper utilizing commuted tomography as a diagnostic tool, but there is no scientific reference to the causal factors in litereature. I suppose it would be best if you recounted your experiences, as well as the "negligence" you attribute to the people involved with this case-the people who have actually seen and worked on the horse.
P
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RE:Keratoma 28 Dec 2010 00:52 #30

  • brian robertson
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OK. I give up, Jack. What exactly causes a keratoma to form in a hoof capsule? Please be very specific if you can.
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