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TOPIC: Iraq discussion

RE:Iraq discussion 27 Feb 2008 03:34 #31

  • SlowShoe
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PerformanceHorseshoeing wrote:
If you missed it the key in that video was Bush saying we don't need to wait for a smoking gun.

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RE:Iraq discussion 27 Feb 2008 03:41 #32

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Thats the smartest sheep I've ever seen.
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RE:Iraq discussion 27 Feb 2008 04:33 #33

  • Gary_Miller
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SlowShoe wrote:
Can you provide us with this information, or is it classified? :)
What part of "there now" did you not understand. Most of the trouble in Iraq now is from terriosts groups who took credit for 9/11, not the people of Iraq.
Gary Miller, PF

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RE:Iraq discussion 27 Feb 2008 05:18 #34

Josh,

As in all things, sometimes we need to look for a change. And after this reply I will avoid the Political Arena for a while and stick to the more profitable regions of this site.

As for WMD's: There is one indisputable fact. The UN was inspecting Iraq for them and Nuclear weapons. For this to happen there must have been a number of Member UN nations besides the US whom felt that Iraq was a threat to someone.

Now to address the childish side of my reply: You think I’m "naive". I think you are "Conspiracy Theorist" and I willing to bet you think Rosie O’Donnell is a genius.

To top this reply off I will say, "I think Bush is the best President we have had in 15 years." The reason I like him is he acts on his beliefs and core values and uses those beliefs to lead our nation; not opinion polls. We(at least I did) voted him in to represent us. (If you are 85 and can’t read or punch a ballet you don’t need to be voting anyway) That is my opinion and I don't care if you like it or not.


May God Bless You and Our Country

Roger
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RE:Iraq discussion 27 Feb 2008 06:24 #35

  • Gary_Miller
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shadow357 wrote:
here your proof
Democratic propaganda. Bits and pieces of information construed to convince a portion of the public to do something. In this case a video put togeather to promote Mrs. Clinton's campaign for president.

I served most of my career in the military under Clinton. All the breifings I had on Iraq and WMD was durning that time. Our contuious presence in the middle east was durning that time. Like it has been said Clinton, the UN and many others was convinced that Iraq had WMD and the capabities to deploy them.

And on that note I think I will move on to something more productive.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
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RE:Iraq discussion 27 Feb 2008 06:57 #36

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We both think we are right. I like to think I provide facts to prove my point. You probably feel the same. Either way people with strong political points of view can tend to let that overshadow other points of life. Maybe we will discuss more in another thread, but I'm content with thinking we each spoke our case and minds. I will lay this one to rest and focus on the more productive side of this site.


-josh
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RE:Iraq discussion 27 Feb 2008 07:54 #37

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Well I saw the first post and had to leave yesterday, but while away I spoke with a yong fellow named Cory.
He has spent the last 15 months in Ramadi. When his outfit arived, it a city of 200,000, and his section had 50,000 there were only two raods that the U.S. would use. He was with a group that set up a base at the end of the worst of the two in a "come and do what you can attitude" as he put it.
He said that they tried repetedly and were beaten repetaly untill they were beaten back and the locals (not replaced by land grabers) saw that the U.S. was in it to win.
He said then the garbage started to be cleaned up, stores started to open. Life is getting back to normal.

Things will never be right in the world. Things have never been right in the world.
I just wish the Troops could come home. From Germany. When is Rosevelt going to bring them home?
Is Truman going to ever pull out of Japan and Korea?
Kennedy out of Cuba (gitmo)?
At least Carter got us out of Iran and Regan out of Lebanon (as noted by Bin Laden).
Maybe Clinton is counting on his wife to get his Troops out of the Balkins, who knows?

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Iraq discussion 28 Feb 2008 12:36 #38

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Roger Williams in gray, deletia

Please don't make statements that are based in Democratic propaganda and not facts. The whole world believed Iraq had WMD's and was pursuing Nuclear Weapons.

Saddam used mustard gas against the Kurds and Iranians, which made folks think he wouldn't hesitate to use WMDs against any invader. However, during the Gulf war, no WMDs were used in combat; following the war, none were found by UN inspectors. After an Israeli air strike on Iraq's only nuclear facility, no evidence suggests the Iraqi's had made any headway in attaining/building nuclear weapons, although the Bush administration worked overtime in an effort to kill the messenger (Wilson) who made this fact public.

Furthermore, contrary to your statement, the "whole world," including the UN inspectors searching for WMDs (Blix, Ritter, Kay, Duelfer, et al), did not believe Iraq had WMDs and/or the technology and infrastructure with which to manufacture WMDs. In reality, the Bush administration invaded Iraq after being told the Iraqis had no WMDs.

If you want to speculate that Bush invaded because he wanted to clean up after Pres. Bush #1 and that used that he WMD's as an excuse, I can go along with that.

If you want to speculate that he invaded for oil and used WMD's as an excuse, I could along with that.


No speculation here, the evidence clearly shows Bush lied to America in order to invade Iraq. When it became apparent that Bush had lied about WMDs, his administration blamed the invasion on everything from faulty intel to lack of assets in the Middle East, but even Karl Rove's goebellic spin couldn't overcome reality: No WMDs, no evidence of WMDs, no evidence of capability to manufacture WMDs.

WMD's may not have been the only reason for invasion, but they were a valid reason. The only one who lied about WMD's was Saddam.

Lemme see if I have this straight: Saddam said he didn't have any WMDs; Bush said he did - but no WMDs have been found. Despite this fact, you think Saddam was lying and Bush was telling the truth? Your argument is classic Newspeak, straight out of 1984.:)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Iraq discussion 28 Feb 2008 15:55 #39

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Roger Williams in gray, deletia

Please don't make statements that are based in Democratic propaganda and not facts. The whole world believed Iraq had WMD's and was pursuing Nuclear Weapons.


If you want to speculate that Bush invaded because he wanted to clean up after Pres. Bush #1 and that used that he WMD's as an excuse, I can go along with that.


WMD's may not have been the only reason for invasion, but they were a valid reason. The only one who lied about WMD's was Saddam.

Lemme see if I have this straight: Saddam said he didn't have any WMDs; Bush said he did - but no WMDs have been found.

So-dam-insane, was hung by a Judge.
Justice was done.

Maybe it’s not right that some how, "The End Justifies The Means"????
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:Iraq discussion 28 Feb 2008 17:54 #40

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Lemme see if I have this straight: Saddam said he didn't have any WMDs; Bush said he did - but no WMDs have been found. Despite this fact, you think Saddam was lying and Bush was telling the truth? Your argument is classic Newspeak, straight out of 1984.

Just because no WMD's were found doesn't mean they weren't there. Have you seen that place, they could be anywhere. I would much rather be safe then sorry. Also it's much better to have a fight over there than it is over here.

You believe Saddam over Bush??? The man put people in wood chippers and you don't think he'da love to drop the big one on the US.

ps. I found his hanging to be very soft. They should've crucified his ass.
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RE:Iraq discussion 28 Feb 2008 22:21 #41

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PerformanceHorseshoeing

Just because no WMD's were found doesn't mean they weren't there. Have you seen that place, they could be anywhere.

I've never been to Iraq - and it's certainly possible that a cache of WMDs could be hidden somewhere - but possibility does not imply probability. The salient point is that lots of folks have been looking, but nobody's found anything. Since nobody has found anything, and several of Bush's former military commanders have stated publically that Iraq didn't have WMDs, it's much more probable that Bush was lying. No big deal, all politicians lie - but Bush's lies have killed more than 3,000 Americans and rimwrecked our economy.

I would much rather be safe then sorry.


Safe from what? Saddam didn't use WMDs in the Gulf War or during the US invasion of Iraq, no WMDs or the means to build them has ever been found, Iraq has never had the means to deliver WMDs to US targets and he was never overtly sympathetic to the various Muslim factions wanting to invoke Muslim law instead of secular law or to the many terrorist groups infesting the Middle East. If you wanted a terrorist while Saddam was in charge, you had to look to Saudi Arabia, Syria, Afganistan, Pakistan, and Iran - but, not Iraq. Now that Saddam has been strung up, a power vaccuum exists in Iraq, civil/religious war is political reality, terrorists are flocking to the country, and it's open season on Americans. All on account of Bush's lies!

Also it's much better to have a fight over there than it is over here.

Whatever gave you the silly idea that there'd be any fighting over here? Given our porous borders and Bush's lack of support for meaningful interdiction of aliens a terrorist attack is a possibility at any time, but we aren't going to be invaded. (How about making it a felony to employ anyone without a valid SSN? It's easy to check: no SSN, no job, and no reason to cross the river.) The folks with the means, technology and possible inclination to deliver WMDs to the US are in Pakistan, India, China, North Korea, and possibly Iran - but they are not now, nor have they ever been in Iraq. Put another way, the idea that it's "better" to fight over there, when no possibility of invasion exists over here, is just an exercise in illogic foisted off on the American public by Bush's spin doctors. That anyone would believe such outrageous nonsense brings to mind Phineas' famous observation on human intellectual frailty.

You believe Saddam over Bush???


Lets review the bidding: Saddam said he didn't have any WMDs; Bush said he did and invaded Iraq on that basis; but, no WMD's or hard evidence of their existence has ever been found; ergo: Bush lied. You can shake it up, break it down, mix it up, and try to put as much spin on it as you can - but it still works out the same way: Bush lied!

The man put people in wood chippers and you don't think he'da love to drop the big one on the US.

Folks who'd love to drop the big one on the US - read the entire Muslim world - come in herds, heaps, and droves. Lucky for us, its not in the interest of those with weapons and means of delivery to use them at this time. If they smite the Great Satan, who'll buy their oil?

ps. I found his hanging to be very soft. They should've crucified his ass.


As far as I'm concerned, the death penalty is much too soft because it immediately puts a criminal out of his misery. I think life at hard labor with no hope of parole is a much more fitting punishment for the Saddams of this world. Y'see, I'm for punishment, not release. Personally, I'd have wanted to keep a fellow like Saddam alive and in misery a good long time. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Iraq discussion 29 Feb 2008 00:10 #42

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When it concerns Iraqi WMDs, I only trust two sources. One is the General who was head of Saddam's WMD program, General George Sada, who detailed the whole shebang in his book "Saddam's Secrets." There may be those who cynically will say that he wrote it to make money, and hey, this is America and last I heard that wasn't a crime. But in writing it, he also put a huge target on his back. I wouldn't want to have it on my back.

The other source I trust is the only intelligence service in the world that truly knows what the heck is going on in the Middle East, and that's the Mossad. While our CIA scratches to find a few Arabic speaking agents, the Mossad has moles in place in every level of all the "governments" (I use that word loosely) in the mid-east, starting decades ago. For Israel it's not fun and games, it's about survival. And the Mossad backs up General Sada's account. So if the General and the Mossad say there were WMDs there, that's good enough for me.

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

Baron
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RE:Iraq discussion 29 Feb 2008 01:16 #43

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Cyber Farrier in gray

When it concerns Iraqi WMDs, I only trust two sources. One is the General who was head of Saddam's WMD program, General George Sada, who detailed the whole shebang in his book "Saddam's Secrets." There may be those who cynically will say that he wrote it to make money, and hey, this is America and last I heard that wasn't a crime. But in writing it, he also put a huge target on his back. I wouldn't want to have it on my back.

The other source I trust is the only intelligence service in the world that truly knows what the heck is going on in the Middle East, and that's the Mossad. While our CIA scratches to find a few Arabic speaking agents, the Mossad has moles in place in every level of all the "governments" (I use that word loosely) in the mid-east, starting decades ago. For Israel it's not fun and games, it's about survival. And the Mossad backs up General Sada's account. So if the General and the Mossad say there were WMDs there, that's good enough for me.

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514


"Were" is past tense. If Saddam shipped his WMDs to Syria, then he didn't have any in Iraq; i.e., he was telling the truth. When it all shakes out, what is known is this: Saddam used mustard gas against the Kurds and Iranians; he didn't use any against the Americans during the Gulf War or during Bush's invasion; and no WMDs have ever been found in Iraq. All else is speculation.

When Israel thought Saddam was getting close to having the bomb, they simply blew the hell out of Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor; presumably, given the long arm of the Mossad, they'd have done something similar if they thought Saddam had WMDs and delivery capability. The Israelis are not known for readily countenancing threats to their state and don't mind making preemptive strikes. God love 'em!

Bottom line: Bush lied.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Iraq discussion 29 Feb 2008 02:02 #44

  • Bill Adams
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I will carry no water for Bush, but with all the vitreall against him had there been lies he would have been impeached long ago.
He didn't gather the intel, the former administration did along with all of the other countries, including france, Germany, Russia. Hillery told Code Pink that she had studied the intel for "a decade" before voting to go to war.
One theroy I've heard is that Sadam may have thought that he did have more than were there.
If Bush was so smooth an opperator, he would have planted at least a couple gallons of somethig after the fact.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Iraq discussion 29 Feb 2008 03:46 #45

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PerformanceHorseshoeing wrote:
Also it's much better to have a fight over there than it is over here.

Who says so? I hate to travel.
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