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TOPIC: Iraq discussion

RE:Iraq discussion 22 Mar 2008 02:10 #121

  • George Geist
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the harrier farrier wrote:
george, is that horse in your avatar sick? he doesnt look too good. is he a race horse? and why are you in a stall?
I don't believe he was sick, but he was ugly. Was a wagon train horse and a bit of a cheap puke. Was owned by a reform school type organization for delinquent kids.

Place I was working was a barn attached to a corncrib.
George
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RE:Iraq discussion 22 Mar 2008 05:55 #122

  • beslagsmed
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Sure I enjoyed getting rid of Sadam, but should we have been there - no. Should we have supported him - no. But at the end of the day should we support anyone in the middle east?

This part of the world has been at war ever since Abraham gave the first blessing to his second son and had to come up with a blessing to his first born. They have been fighting each other for how many thousands of years? The divisions made after the WWI didn't make matter any better. The Brits tried to rule the middle east, but sooner or later they found out they couldn't. We should have had one rule - don't get involved militarly in the middle east.

Blood will flow long after we are gone and what good we have done will only be a page in history. If they could contain their problems to their sand box, fine but that isn't their goal.

Islam has has one goal - to convert the world. If you don't believe you are the infadel(sp) and must be killed. They tried to take over Europe, Italy and are still trying to take over every part of the world. I hear them condem the sword, but never do they do anything to try to stem it. Until the world is converted there will always be a problem.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

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What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

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RE:Iraq discussion 23 Mar 2008 23:48 #123

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
cotyqtrhorses in gray

It's not politically correct to mention this, but Islam, not a few fanatics, is the enemy.


When a few Muslims blow stuff up, the whole of Islam countenances their actions. Have you ever heard any of the so called "moderate" Muslims, much less any Muslim clergy, condemning Muslim suicide bombers? Speaking out against the 9/11 atrocity?


Islam is the only religion/superstition currently being spread by the sword and it has a long, unbroken, history of being spread in that manner.


Too late! When Saddam was toppled, a power vaccuum was immediately created and the fanatics are already in control. Does anybody remember what happened in Yugoslavia when Tito died?


Nearly 4,000 American lives have already been wasted in Iraq. How about either getting the hell out - or recognizing that Islam is the real enemy and acting in our interest instead of pandering to our "friends" in the surrounding countries?

MR, Stovall

On this we have an accord there is no such thing as a moderate muslim the very fact they worship in a religion that preaches hate and the annihilation of those who will not either Join or pay homage makes it impossible to negotiate.

Chuck
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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 00:18 #124

  • Rick Burten
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beslagsmed wrote:
Sure I enjoyed getting rid of Sadam, but should we have been there - no. Should we have supported him - no. But at the end of the day should we support anyone in the middle east?
Granted that I am biased, but Yes, we should support Israel. :)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 02:19 #125

  • SlowShoe
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Rick Burten wrote:
Granted that I am biased, but Yes, we should support Israel. :)

I definitely dont think we should support the Israeli government the way we do. I have a serious problem with the disregard for life under current Israeli policies. Recent events such as the deliberate targeting of Ambulance drivers and even the shooting of clearly identifiable journalists sickens me. Along with the general policies of bulldozing homes and attacking suspected militants with bombs, missiles and the like while they are in busy areas such as markets.

Private fund raisers are the way to go to support a cause, not taxpayer dollars.
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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 02:58 #126

Have you ever heard any of the so called "moderate" Muslims, much less any Muslim clergy, condemning Muslim suicide bombers? Speaking out against the 9/11 atrocity/

Every so often someone asks a set of good questions. Unfortunately they do not expect someone to answer them because to do so might make them a target.

Since I have already been a target for just about everyone at one time or another and I do not like the politics of hatred or religious bigotry I would suggest that those of you who doubt that there are Muslim leaders opposed to the terrorist violence try goggling "Muslims against 9/11" and see that there are over 300,000 results. Try reading some of those results. Then as you do, also remember that Christianity was spread by the sword under the rule of the Popes and that many non-Christian peoples and religions were destroyed, co-opted or erased from the face of the planet in the name of a Christian God.

When I read the bible I do not hear a message of hatred, nor do I hear a message that says we need to kill anyone that is not a believer in some form of the Judeo-Christian belief system. Perhaps on Easter we need to pay just a bit more attention the teachings of our Judeo-Christian prophets as outlined in the Bible and less to the teachings in the Koran which most of you probably haven't read because it was not included as a part of your one-dimensional religious education?
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 11:45 #127

  • TRIP HAMMER
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Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Every so often someone asks a set of good questions. Unfortunately they do not expect someone to answer them because to do so might make them a target.

When I read the bible I do not hear a message of hatred, nor do I hear a message that says we need to kill anyone that is not a believer in some form of the Judeo-Christian belief system. Perhaps on Easter we need to pay just a bit more attention the teachings of our Judeo-Christian prophets as outlined in the Bible and less to the teachings in the Koran which most of you probably haven't read because it was not included as a part of your one-dimensional religious education?

Ron,
Thanks for the Easter Sermon. I'm feeling safer already!
John
"That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet"
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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 12:43 #128

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Ronald E. Kramedjian in gray, my old stuff in brown

Have you ever heard any of the so called "moderate" Muslims, much less any Muslim clergy, condemning Muslim suicide bombers? Speaking out against the 9/11 atrocity

Every so often someone asks a set of good questions. Unfortunately they do not expect someone to answer them because to do so might make them a target.

Unless you're clairvoyant, you could not possibly know the questioner's expectations.

Since I have already been a target for just about everyone at one time or another and I do not like the politics of hatred or religious bigotry I would suggest that those of you who doubt that there are Muslim leaders opposed to the terrorist violence try goggling "Muslims against 9/11" and see that there are over 300,000 results.

Your numbers are a little off. In reality, cutting and pasting "Muslims against 9/11" into Google's Advanced Search yields exactly zero results!

Try reading some of those results.

What results? While there may be some Muslims who've decried the terrorist attacks on US interests and 9/11, their silence has been deafening. On the other hand, Islamic media has been overwhelming in its support for the attacks.

Then as you do, also remember that Christianity was spread by the sword under the rule of the Popes and that many non-Christian peoples and religions were destroyed, co-opted or erased from the face of the planet in the name of a Christian God.

That was then, this is now. Pope Urban II's bastardization of biblical edicts and the use of that bastardization to justify the subsequent nine crusades does not imply a fundamental Christian philosophy of spreading religion by the sword.

When I read the bible I do not hear a message of hatred, nor do I hear a message that says we need to kill anyone that is not a believer in some form of the Judeo-Christian belief system.

The message of hatred is found in the Koran and repeated incessantly in every mosque. Islam has declared itself to be the enemy of all non-believers, not just Christians and Jews.

Perhaps on Easter we need to pay just a bit more attention the teachings of our Judeo-Christian prophets as outlined in the Bible and less to the teachings in the Koran

Perhaps it might be better - in terms of survival for any non-Islamic state - if the world recognizes Islam as the enemy and the Koran as hate propaganda instead of depending upon a flawed history of the Middle East for guidance. In the real world, turning the other cheek usually results in both cheeks getting smacked.

which most of you probably haven't read because it was not included as a part of your one-dimensional religious education?

Evidently, you speak from personal experience when it comes to "your one-dimensional religious education." For your edification, I've included a couple of passages from the Koran that deal with Islamic philosophy toward non-believers and one that deals with the all-inclusiveness of the Koran:

[FONT=Georgia,Arial,Helvetica]"Fight those among the People of the Book [i.e. Jews and Christians] ... who do not profess the true religion, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Sura 9.29)

[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Arial,Helvetica]"Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them. For we have already sent down clear revelations and the unbelievers will have a humiliating penalty." (Sura 58.5)

[/FONT]I suggest you pay careful attention to the following Sura should any Muslim apologist attempt to hoodwink you into thinking the Koran is about peace and tolerance:

"Do you, then, believe in one part of the Book and disbelieve in another? The reward of those among you who do that is nothing but disgrace in this world, and on the Day of Resurrection they shall be turned over to the most severe punishment." (Sura 2.85)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 13:54 #129

  • Cyber Farrier
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Having given this a lot of thought, I'd like to request that we stick to "politics" and not religion. I fully realize the two are inextricably intertwined in many circumstances, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, and that's my job. It's lonely at the top.

So bring it on about wars, elections, conspiracy theories, etc..., but no more discussion about specfic faiths and religions. Not that I don't enjoy them, but these forums are not the proper venue.

Thank you for abiding by this request.

Baron
“Suppose you were an ******. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 21:52 #130

TRIP HAMMER wrote:
Ron,
Thanks for the Easter Sermon. I'm feeling safer already!
John
John,

You should note that I did not and I have never advocated not killing the enemy, especially any enemy of the US. I actually thought Uncle Sam had taught me how to do exactly that with skill, efficiency and a clear thought process.

I am however advocating a target identification methodology that is not based upon race, creed, religion or anything other than actual hostile acts. An act of war is still an act of war and should be met with as much violence as is necessary to eliminate the threat. I don't need hate to kill the enemy, just a good sight picture. It really is as simple and clean as that.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 22:01 #131

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Your numbers are a little off
Sir,

My numbers are only off because you chose to manipulate the result. Try using my search words on the main search page and then read a few of the results. It puts paid to your assertions. I suggest that if you are going to make those kinds of assertions you should have the intelectual honesty to know that they are completely accurate or admit that perhaps you have overstated your case a bit.

Since Baron has made religion a frobiden topic I am now droping this conversation.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 22:54 #132

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Ronald E. Kramedjian in gray, deletia

My numbers are only off because you chose to manipulate the result.

Try using my search words on the main search page and then read a few of the results.


Mr. Kramedjian, I cut and pasted YOUR exact search criteria into the Google Advanced Search engine: if that's "manipulation", I'm guilty as hell. Since an advanced search using your EXACT words comes up empty, then you might consider the woeful lack of specificity of YOUR criteria.

Since Baron has made religion a frobiden topic I am now droping this conversation.

This missive is not about religion, it's about your failure to take personal responsibility for your mistake, then having the temerity to attempt to blame your error on me. With that thought in mind, I most respectfully suggest that your apparent inability to express yourself - either accurately or cogently - is your problem, not mine. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Iraq discussion 24 Mar 2008 23:43 #133

  • Rick Burten
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Tom,

I went to the Google home page, hit "advanced searcj" and when that page came up typed the "muslims against 9/11 on the first line. I got a page that listed 1,960,000 hits.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=muslims+against+9%2F11&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images

we are separated by ou common language:o:)

Rick
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."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Iraq discussion 25 Mar 2008 01:47 #134

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Rick Burten in gray

I went to the Google home page, hit "advanced searcj" and when that page came up typed the "muslims against 9/11 on the first line. I got a page that listed 1,960,000 hits.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=muslims+against+9%2F11&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images

we are separated by ou common language:o:)

I'm far too lazy to type when I can cut and paste, so I simply cut and pasted Mr. Kramedjian's criteria, with this result:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=Muslims+against+9%2F11&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images


If one enters one's criteria on the first line, the search engine will display every website in its database that contains all of the words entered in whatever order. I pasted the criteria into the second line, which searches for the exact wording or phrase - I figure accuracy counts. To be quite frank, I was absolutely astounded to find no hits, but I checked it several times before responding in order to assure the accuracy of my response. At any rate, my notation of the lack of response was digressive and was not really germane to the primary issue, which is no longer under discussion. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Iraq discussion 25 Mar 2008 03:32 #135

  • beslagsmed
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I just tried it on AltaVista and got 30,700,000 hits.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

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What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

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