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TOPIC: Iraq discussion

RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 15:28 #106

Mr. Stovall you make good points. You must consider the Iraqis who were greatfull to be liberated though. How can you say there are no islamic moderates when women are now showing their faces in public, Iraqi police are working side by side with US soliders, and some Iraqis are even working for the US military. These people are also under attack by the extremeists, yet you catorigize them together. I do worry about the fanatical government in Iran acquireing nuclear technology. I feel Iran and North Korea were greater threats than Iraq but it is too late to withdraw. The middle east is a powder keg and one spark in Iraq would negate any progress made if we withdrew without making sure Iraq had a stable governmet (hopefully implemented by us not our enemies), a sound national defense, and strong diplomatic ties with the US. Don't forget that I said we never should have been there but we can't afford to have another North Korea to deal with. The only other option is to kill them all to make sure this won't come back to bite us but that would never happen so we must stabalize Iraq before we leave.

Kurtis Coty
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 15:50 #107

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Hi all,

From day one this was a bad idea and thinking back with some good intel and a cruise missle might that have been a better option. You might have missed a few times but eventually a rat will come out in the open. After dealing with a few bad guys this way don't you think the Iraqi government might have become a little more moderate with no lives thrown away. Option 2 would be get all the rats by turning that whole part of the world into an nice glass roller rink with some sort of a low yeild weapon and just help yourselves to the oil.

Kevin
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 17:13 #108

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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cotyqtrhorses

Mr. Stovall you make good points. You must consider the Iraqis who were greatfull to be liberated though.

I'm unaware that the average Iraqi is grateful for being "liberated" - as nearly as I can tell, the country is in the midst of a sectarian civil war in which they occasionally stop fighting each other long enough to set off a roadside bomb targeting Americans.

How can you say there are no islamic moderates when women are now showing their faces in public, Iraqi police are working side by side with US soliders, and some Iraqis are even working for the US military.

Under Saddam, women were showing their face in public, there was no Shira law, and Iraq had the highest per capita income and literacy rates in the Middle East. Saddam was a dictator, nobody had any rights, but the buses ran on time and most folks in populated areas had electricity, water, and sewerge. Saddam's gone - and so are the aforementioned benefits of living in his dictatorship. It wasn't all bad.

The fact that some Iraqis are working with US occupation forces does not change the fundamental Islamic attitude toward infidels.

These people are also under attack by the extremeists, yet you catorigize them together.

Ever read any Shira law? The Koran? Islamic history? Do so and you'll come to the conclusion that Islam is synonymous with zealotry, that "extremists" are the norm, and that they've been fighting sectarian wars since the Prophet allegedly walked the earth. Their fundamental philosophy is that the end justifies the means, there is no God but Allah, and the infidel will either believe or die! If you have any doubts, please refer to the short Islamic history posted by Mr. Presnail.

I do worry about the fanatical government in Iran acquireing nuclear technology. I feel Iran and North Korea were greater threats than Iraq but it is too late to withdraw.

Nossir, it's not too late to withdraw and maintaining the status quo is obviously not in our interest. If we withdraw, Shira law will be instituted, Iraq will remain embroiled in a bloody civil war, and most of the blood will be Iraqi; If we stay, Shira law will be instituted, Iraq will remain embroiled in a bloody civil war, and some of the blood will be American.

None or some? To paraphrase Kaiser Wilhem on the Balkans, "Iraq is not worth the life of a single American soldier."

Or, we can come to our collective senses, accept that Islam is the enemy, change the rules of engagement to reflect that understanding, then pacify the country by the most expedient means. In all probability, that means would be fatal to anyone who caused any American harm by overt or covert means, including the provision of infrastructure in any form. It's not politically correct to mention this, but brutal repression has been the only effective means of achieving any sort of peace in the Middle East since Nebuchadnezzar was running Babylon.

The middle east is a powder keg and one spark in Iraq would negate any progress made if we withdrew without making sure Iraq had a stable governmet (hopefully implemented by us not our enemies), a sound national defense, and strong diplomatic ties with the US.

LMAO! Get it through your head that we haven't made any progress in Iraq, we've created a power vaccuum that's been filled by various Islamic sects, united solely by their hatred of the United States.

Don't forget that I said we never should have been there but we can't afford to have another North Korea to deal with. The only other option is to kill them all to make sure this won't come back to bite us but that would never happen so we must stabalize Iraq before we leave.

Iraq will never be "stable" as long as Islamic clergy is allowed to preach hatred of the infidel in every mosque. Pragmatically, repression is a viable option: it may not be palatable to the "turn the other cheek crowd" and folks who worry about world opinion, but it's unarguably effective. Put another way, why fight if we don't intend to win?
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 21:38 #109

  • George Geist
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It's a rare horseman that doesn't like the tune of Garry Owen.

Enjoy guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvmknj7haKo

George
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 22:01 #110

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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George Geist wrote:
It's a rare horseman that doesn't like the tune of Garry Owen.

Enjoy guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvmknj7haKo

George

George, I do know a few good horsemen on some reservations back home in south central Montana that may not like that particular tune. To many ancestors telling them about Gen. Custer and that tune. I do find myself whistling that once in awhile after watching a Custer movie on AMC.
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 22:08 #111

  • George Geist
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BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
George, I do know a few good horsemen on some reservations back home in south central Montana that may not like that particular tune. To many ancestors telling them about Gen. Custer and that tune. I do find myself whistling that once in awhile after watching a Custer movie on AMC.

Actually one of my favorite people hails from those parts as well and takes a bit of pride in that snippet of anti-government history:)

Actually the song goes back much further than that though. Was brought here from the old country during the famine. Custer happened to like it himself so made it the song of the 7th
George
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 22:23 #112

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George Geist wrote:
Actually one of my favorite people hails from those parts as well and takes a bit of pride in that snippet of anti-government history:)

Actually the song goes back much further than that though. Was brought here from the old country during the famine. Custer happened to like it himself so made it the song of the 7th
George

Yeah, I know the history. Grew up about 60 miles from Custer Battle Field National Park. Many visits as a kid when cowboys and calvalry were the heroes and Indians were the bad guys. Have a bit of a different view now but that's another story. I also have a history degree and love American history.
Ben Sturman
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Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 22:27 #113

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BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
Yeah, I know the history. Grew up about 60 miles from Custer Battle Field National Park. Many visits as a kid when cowboys and calvalry were the heroes and Indians were the bad guys. Have a bit of a different view now but that's another story. I also have a history degree and love American history.

i thought the discussion was on iraq? am i on the wrong thread?
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 22:28 #114

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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the harrier farrier wrote:
i thought the discussion was on iraq? am i on the wrong thread?

No, just a small tangent. Were done.
Ben Sturman
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Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 22:29 #115

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BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
No, just a small tangent. Were done.

ahh cool, no problem
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 23:14 #116

  • TRIP HAMMER
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George Geist wrote:
It's a rare horseman that doesn't like the tune of Garry Owen.

Enjoy guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvmknj7haKo

George

George,
We might agree on something. Note, I said might. Need more info.
John
"That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet"
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RE:Iraq discussion 21 Mar 2008 23:23 #117

  • George Geist
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TRIP HAMMER wrote:
George,
We might agree on something. Note, I said might. Need more info.
John
Hey John,
I'm sure there are probably a whole bunch of stuff we agree on;)

There's a wealth of information on these couple of threads much of which was generously provided by Scott Chaney. What other stuff might you like to know?
George
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RE:Iraq discussion 22 Mar 2008 00:05 #118

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george, is that horse in your avatar sick? he doesnt look too good. is he a race horse? and why are you in a stall?
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RE:Iraq discussion 22 Mar 2008 00:47 #119

  • Cyber Farrier
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the harrier farrier wrote:
george, is that horse in your avatar sick? he doesnt look too good. is he a race horse? and why are you in a stall?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time, and assume these are the last d_u_m_b questions you're going to ask, and that maybe you'll start contributing something instead of only posting useless drivel. Because posting useless drivel (as well as bloviating) has now become cause for taking a vacation, leading to a permanent vacation, if you can't break the habit.

Baron
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RE:Iraq discussion 22 Mar 2008 00:57 #120

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Cyber Farrier wrote:
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time, and assume these are the last d_u_m_b questions you're going to ask, and that maybe you'll start contributing something instead of only posting useless drivel. Because posting useless drivel (as well as bloviating) has now become cause for taking a vacation, leading to a permanent vacation, if you can't break the habit.

Baron

sorry cyber farrier
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