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TOPIC: Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing

RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 02 Jul 2005 16:36 #16

  • Rick Burten
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BWFA Headquarters wrote:
AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE BWFA BOARD OF DIRECTORS;

We would like to set the record straight that the BWFA membership consists of over 8,000 individuals, making it the largest farrier association. (Contrary to previous reports by non-BWFA individuals and groups.)

Are all of the 8,0000 individuals practicing farriers? I ask because you imply(..."making it the largest farrieer association") that they are. This is contrary to the information that I have. If I have incorrect information, then please correct me, if on the other hand, all the members of the BWFA are not farriers, then at a minimum, your statement is disingenuous, and quite possibly is quite dishonest. Which, in light of certain other revelations presented here and elsewhere, does nothing to improve either your standing or credibility among farriers, horseowners, veterinarians and any other equine practitioners, devotees or representatives.


Additionally, at one time, the founder of the BWFA stated that the only horses that should not be shod were broodmares, and then only if they were NEVER ridden. Is this still the position of the leadership?

And, since the BWFA founder(and President and thus defacto BOD member)owns a horseshoeing school, is it not disingenous and duplicitous when he attaches his name without disclosing said affiliation, to statements regarding possible curriculae standard/requirement changes . And, is this truely the position of the BOD, or merely a rubber stamping of the wishes, wants and desire of its founder and president?

Quote: #3 The B.W.F.A. Board of Directors will not recognize small self appointed committees.

ROTFLAMO!

I am assuming that you are referring to the AFA task force that was established and later disbanded(after its assignment was completed) by the president of the AFA, Craig Trnka? Lets set the record straight (once again) here. The president of the AFA is empowered by the By-Laws of the AFA to establish any Ad Hoc committee he deems prudent and necessary. This is not a 'self appointed committee' to which you refer(Strike ONE).

The President of the AFA only appointed the Chairman of said committee, the chairman did not self appoint. (Strike TWO).

The members of the committee were asked to serve and if they agreed, were appointed to the committee by the chairman of the committee. You by now have noted that they did not self appoint to the committee as you have inferred. (Strike THREE! You're O-U-T!).

Congratulations!, you have just lived up to the reputation that has preceeded you, the collective, not the individual.

One last thing. If you want ALL farriers regardless of affiliation or non-affiliation, vendors, and farrier schools, to have a voice and vote on these or any matters, then the only way you are going to first have to identify who all these individuals are and then you are going to have to send each and every one of them a ballot or poll or whatever you choose to call it, to vote on or respond to. Merely issuing an invitation in cyberspace or vocally(by your president as he embarks on Gulliver's Travels) is not sufficient. For how do you know that everyone concerned will receive said invitation?

HEY! Wait Just a Minute. In order to identify every farrier, vendor, school in the United States of America, you are going to have to have some kind of REGISTRATION/REGISTRY! That means that you are talking out of both sides of your face, and you REALLY DO favor a national registration of all farriers.

Now that was kinda slick! You appear to be against registering all farriers in the USA, but you really are IN FAVOR of just the opposite(to refresh your memory incase you forgot, you are infavor OF registering all farriers in the USA).

Pretty slick trick, hiding your true agenda in plain sight.

Rick, (and everyone else that co-exists, sometimes peacefully, sometimes not, within the increasingly crowded confines of his skull: Two Dogs, EMETEM, The Sultan, The Prince ,and any/all other as yet unrecognized personas {and some think that Sybil had problems}).
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 03 Jul 2005 23:42 #17

  • Rick Burten
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BWFA Headquarters wrote:
AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE BWFA BOARD OF DIRECTORS;

(Anonymous name polls will not be counted !)

BWFA Headquarters
14013 East Hwy 136
LaFayette, Georgia 30728


Since you brought up the subject of anonymity, just who is posting the information and responses originating from BWFA headquarters?

At least when information is posted by the AFA and/or the Guild of Professional Farriers, the individual posting the information signs the posting with his/her name and position.

Rick

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 31 Mar 2009 12:51 #18

Here's some old news on the subject on licencing, and the different opinions.:)
________
Max speed 177 pellets 250ct
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 08 May 2009 20:40 #19

  • Kelly Case
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Here is some new news on licensing and registration and a few of my opinions as well, I don’t have time to read or post on these threads very often and I really wouldn’t even have read this **** if it had not been for someone calling my attention to the fact that the licensing and registration issue is once again being beaten to death on this website and a few others.
First it seems to me the only people that are talking about licensing and registration is our old friends in the AFA.
The AFA being the only organization that has been hell bent on controlling the farriers since it's inception. See page 8 of Principles of Horseshoeing II and read the quote from Walt Taylor that was made in I believe 1972 or 1973 in Anvil Magazine. (I have an original copy of that article for any of you who are interested)

This Spring at the Equine Affaire in Ohio I talked with the AFA President and President elect and I asked bluntly if licensing and registration was off the table or just back under the table. Well after the song and dance I got, I believe its under the table and being pushed as hard as ever especially when I was told that “Though officially the current administration is not pursuing it (licensing and registration) any board member could bring it to the table, and in the event that would happen the AFA as a 501(c)3 couldn’t lobby but has offered its model for certification and would act as expert witnesses to insure a smooth transition from the current system to the new system” Now that sounds to me like the AFA is at it again. Do the math. A smaller BOD is easier to control so the infighting that stopped the process last time would be held to a minimum and the “Walt Taylor manifesto” is that much closer to fruition.

Now the friend of mine who encouraged me to read these forums and the other websites that discuss licensing also encouraged me to stay for a BOD meeting of the BWFA while I was down in GA working at the Farriers' National Research Center. Here is the other side of the coin.
One: According to the attorneys present at the meeting, the schools could have and should have shut the AFA down after the Mike Miller report, however not more than two schools had the ***** to do it, hell one school owner stood right up in that meeting slammed his fist on the table and stated that he would physically fight to stop this ****. Of course he accepted the AFA educator of the year award right after that (quite the hypocrite if you ask me).
Two: According to the attorneys present at the BWFA BOD meeting, the AFA is trying to monopolize the industry and with the slander and lies that have been perpetuated about the BWFA and some other individuals in the industry, there is a basis for a class action suit against the AFA and many of its members. Again that goes from the Luikart days to Walt Taylor, Mike Miller and many more people in the AFA who have sat around and let there mouths write checks their ass can't cover.
The documentation that has been kept at the FNRC is enormous, and I actually had to volunteer my pickup truck to help haul the files to the attorney's office in Atlanta. It goes all the way back to the letters that were sent out to AFA chapters by then AFA President Randy Luikart belittling the testing procedures of the BWFA, and the BWFA in general (ask Walt Taylor he has seen those letters) all the way to the present time up to and including much of the **** that is spewed forth on this website and others.
Three: According to the lead attorney, the BWFA has the only recognized research center in the U.S. and has documented 15 years of research on shoes, shoeing, the function of the lower limb different treatments and protocols for shoeing the sound and unsound horse, etc. Thereby making the BWFA, and the Farriers' National Research Center the “Expert” and the expert witness.
So far the only thing that has stopped this lawsuit from taking place is the BWFA President Ralph Casey. As Ralph has never bashed the AFA or encouraged the bashing of the AFA or condoned anyone who bashed the AFA, he has been reluctant to really stir things up with a lawsuit.
However, there is a younger more aggressive leadership moving up in the BWFA and they are sick and tired of the **** and, well, honestly some of them are spoiling for a fight. Now, I don’t know how the vote went as I was to busy hauling evidence to Atlanta but I do know that I gave my vote to a BOD member who wants to put this **** to rest once and for all. I'm sure that it will be awhile before all of the documentation is sorted out but it's being put together and if and when it happens it will be one hell of a lawsuit.
So maybe instead of sitting here in a two bit chat room running your mouths and making every shoer look like a fool, you all need to get your heads down and butts up and shoe some horses. At least do something productive for our trade like perhaps educate the horse owner, so that they can make an informed choice about what is right for their horse.

Kelly Case BWFA CJF II
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 08 May 2009 21:37 #20

Would it be so bad to have a standardized education and knowledge base for farriers? At present a "farrier" can be anyone form a guy with tractor supply tools and no education and experience to someone like Bob Pethic, Chris Gregory etc... It confuses me, so how does an owner stand a chance in knowing who is a "farrier"?
I do not know if licensing is the answer, but in my opinion, there is far to varied a skill level and knowledge base in the proffesion.
JMO,
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 08 May 2009 21:58 #21

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Kelly Case BWFA CJF II

What are all those neat letters after your name? Is it code language? Or did you have a fit while typing and your name is really Kelly Case II?

Anyway, is Ralph Casey the cool dude that runs those infomercials about horseshoeing on TV?

Thanks,
Bill
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 09 May 2009 00:58 #22

  • Jaye Perry
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Bill Lansing wrote:
What are all those neat letters after your name? Is it code language? Or did you have a fit while typing and your name is really Kelly Case II?

Anyway, is Ralph Casey the cool dude that runs those infomercials about horseshoeing on TV?

Thanks,
Bill


Yep only a 40 minute drive; I am enamored!:D:D:D
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 09 May 2009 02:43 #23

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Jaye Perry wrote:
Yep only a 40 minute drive; I am enamored!:D:D:D

Jaye are you BWFA cert.?
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 09 May 2009 03:09 #24

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Jaye Perry wrote:
Yep only a 40 minute drive; I am enamored!:D:D:D

I can't get over the amount of farriers who talk about sueing people. This character talks about sueing and telling others to go shoe some horses in the same breath. :cool:
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 09 May 2009 03:11 #25

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Kelly Case in gray

Here is some new news on licensing and registration and a few of my opinions as well, I don’t have time to read or post on these threads very often and I really wouldn’t even have read this **** if it had not been for someone calling my attention to the fact that the licensing and registration issue is once again being beaten to death on this website and a few others.

Welcome to the forums.

First it seems to me the only people that are talking about licensing and registration is our old friends in the AFA.

So what? Is the BWFA against free speech?

The AFA being the only organization that has been hell bent on controlling the farriers since it's inception. See page 8 of Principles of Horseshoeing II and read the quote from Walt Taylor that was made in I believe 1972 or 1973 in Anvil Magazine. (I have an original copy of that article for any of you who are interested)

Again, so what? In reality, the only entity capable of exerting any "control" over working farriers is the JHU at a few tracks in states without right to work laws.

This Spring at the Equine Affaire in Ohio I talked with the AFA President and President elect and I asked bluntly if licensing and registration was off the table or just back under the table.

Why do you feel the AFA's officers owe you an explanation?

Well after the song and dance I got, I believe its under the table and being pushed as hard as ever especially when I was told that “Though officially the current administration is not pursuing it (licensing and registration) any board member could bring it to the table, and in the event that would happen the AFA as a 501(c)3 couldn’t lobby but has offered its model for certification and would act as expert witnesses to insure a smooth transition from the current system to the new system”

Were the government to initiate licensing, one supposes they could use the BWFA's model, which apparently consists primarily of sending the testing fees to Ralph and does not include such bothersome niceties as testing for competence; however, that particular model engenders mostly laughter and contempt among those who've stood for a farrier test of any sort and that laughter would probably preclude any political entity's using the BWFA model.

Now that sounds to me like the AFA is at it again. Do the math. A smaller BOD is easier to control so the infighting that stopped the process last time would be held to a minimum and the “Walt Taylor manifesto” is that much closer to fruition.

Given that the BWFA jumps whenever Ralph says, "Frog," historically it appears the BWFA is much easier for an individual to control.

Now the friend of mine who encouraged me to read these forums and the other websites that discuss licensing also encouraged me to stay for a BOD meeting of the BWFA while I was down in GA working at the Farriers' National Research Center. Here is the other side of the coin.

One: According to the attorneys present at the meeting, the schools could have and should have shut the AFA down after the Mike Miller report,


As you note correctly, some lawyers will say any damfool thing in order to drum up business.

however not more than two schools had the ***** to do it, hell one school owner stood right up in that meeting slammed his fist on the table and stated that he would physically fight to stop this ****.

It appears nobody accepted his offer.

Of course he accepted the AFA educator of the year award right after that (quite the hypocrite if you ask me).

I dunno who it was or even if it happened as you say it did, but if it did he was damn sure no hypocrite! Hypocrites say one thing and do another, they aren't willing to fight for their beliefs.

Two: According to the attorneys present at the BWFA BOD meeting, the AFA is trying to monopolize the industry and with the slander and lies that have been perpetuated about the BWFA and some other individuals in the industry, there is a basis for a class action suit against the AFA and many of its members.

One hates to be the bearer of bad tidings, but truth is an absolute defense against claims of slander, a fact that makes any possibility of the BWFA's mounting a successful lawsuit against the AFA nothing more than a BWFA wet dream.

Again that goes from the Luikart days to Walt Taylor, Mike Miller and many more people in the AFA who have sat around and let there mouths write checks their ass can't cover.

Because the BWFA once offered me a "Masters Certification" if I'd send them $50, I've written on several occasions that the BWFA has all the credibility of a used car salesman. On reflection, I probably ought to apologize to Texas' used car salesman because they have a helluva lot more credibility than the BWFA in my estimation.

The documentation that has been kept at the FNRC is enormous, and I actually had to volunteer my pickup truck to help haul the files to the attorney's office in Atlanta. It goes all the way back to the letters that were sent out to AFA chapters by then AFA President Randy Luikart belittling the testing procedures of the BWFA


LMAO! The BWFA has testing procedures? Who knew?

and the BWFA in general (ask Walt Taylor he has seen those letters) all the way to the present time up to and including much of the **** that is spewed forth on this website and others.

Alas, the fact that truth is an absolute defense against such claims gives you a tough row to hoe, despite your vaunted attorney's opinion.

Three: According to the lead attorney, the BWFA has the only recognized research center in the U.S. and has documented 15 years of research on shoes, shoeing, the function of the lower limb different treatments and protocols for shoeing the sound and unsound horse, etc. Thereby making the BWFA, and the Farriers' National Research Center the “Expert” and the expert witness.

Apparently your "lead attorney" didn't do much research before offering you legal advice. Texas A&M's Hoof Project comes immediately to mind, as well as other longstanding and ongoing hoof research projects at Cornell, UPenn, Auburn, Texas A&M, CO State, and other vet schools. If your so-called, "Farriers' National Research Center" ever butts heads with these folks in terms of credibility and expertise, I can pick a winner.

So far the only thing that has stopped this lawsuit from taking place is the BWFA President Ralph Casey. As Ralph has never bashed the AFA or encouraged the bashing of the AFA or condoned anyone who bashed the AFA, he has been reluctant to really stir things up with a lawsuit.

Frankly, who gives a damn?

However, there is a younger more aggressive leadership moving up in the BWFA and they are sick and tired of the **** and, well, honestly some of them are spoiling for a fight.

So what? Should the AFA tremble at the thought? Or, will the AFA's lawyers merely point out that truth is an absolute defense against such claims?

Now, I don’t know how the vote went as I was to busy hauling evidence to Atlanta but I do know that I gave my vote to a BOD member who wants to put this **** to rest once and for all. I'm sure that it will be awhile before all of the documentation is sorted out but it's being put together and if and when it happens it will be one hell of a lawsuit.

I figure any BWFA lawsuit will have all the relevance of distant mouse flatulence to the farrier world - nobody will care.

So maybe instead of sitting here in a two bit chat room running your mouths and making every shoer look like a fool, you all need to get your heads down and butts up and shoe some horses.

Or what? Will you continue to whine interminably whenever you grace us with your presence? Will you threaten sue anyone who has the audacity to point out the BWFA has a rather sordid history? In point of fact, you are the only participant in this exchange who is playing the fool by attempting to defend the indefensible.

At least do something productive for our trade like perhaps educate the horse owner, so that they can make an informed choice about what is right for their horse.

I can think of several members of this forum, who've been educating owners, veterinarians, and other farriers longer than you've been housebroke. Not all of us are AFA members, some of us might even be BWFA members, but none of us are willing to accept the BWFA's attempts to limit our right of free speech. In terms of philosophy, your emperor is still butt nekkid and if you don't want folks to hear about it, clothe his ragged arse.
Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 09 May 2009 03:18 #26

Kelly Case wrote:
Here is some new news on licensing and registration and a few of my opinions as well,
Read you whole post and there ain't anything new and your opinions aren’t all that interesting either.

Kelly Case wrote:
Two: According to the attorneys present at the BWFA BOD meeting, the AFA is trying to monopolize the industry and with the slander and lies that have been perpetuated about the BWFA and some other individuals in the industry, there is a basis for a class action suit against the AFA and many of its members.
Baloney. It is easy to threaten to sue this way, but until the lawyers write the first letter stating that a state of war is pending it ain't real. It is my opinion that you are a posturing twit blowing hard to seem important. Personally I would find it hard to believe that an educated competent attorney would use the word monopoly in regard a trade association that only represents between 4 and 8 percent of the estimated farriers in the country. Given how litigious people are these days I also have a hard time believing that he would have talked about slander or defamation either. After all the truth is an absolute defense and there has been no evidence presented proving that any of the allegations that I know about, made by AFA members or officials, are not true.


Kelly Case wrote:
However, there is a younger more aggressive leadership moving up in the BWFA and they are sick and tired of the **** and, well, honestly some of them are spoiling for a fight. Now, I don’t know how the vote went as I was to busy hauling evidence to Atlanta but I do know that I gave my vote to a BOD member who wants to put this **** to rest once and for all.
I am sure the AFA is a quiver with fear and respect for this upcoming leaderships ability to bluster over this male bovine excrement. You all need to put up, which you haven't been able to yet, or shut up and dissolve before you embarrass yourselves even more than you already have.


Kelly Case wrote:
So maybe instead of sitting here in a two bit chat room running your mouths and making every shoer look like a fool
Perhaps you should take your own advice instead of making other BWFA shoers look bad by your inarticulate example?
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 09 May 2009 04:33 #27

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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Kelly, you must be one of them 20 a day horse shoers. You must be one of them do as many as possible so the other guy can't have any business types. Me, I'd rather shoe five horses a day for a $100.00 a piece instead of 20 for $50.00. Then I can go home, see my son and play ball, hang out with my wife, and have a life. You want to shoe dawn to dusk, go ahead if that's all you BWFA guys know how to do.

If you re-read your post you will see, if you can comprehend, how silly you sound. The BWFA has no power, the AFA has no power, all this will come from government intervention. It don't matter who's model is used, you better be prepared to pass the test or quit shoeing. Can you walk the walk? Your talk ain't nothin special, so your work better be damn good.

As for the BWFA, well I could have passed there so called test after eight weeks of shoeing school and recieved my Journeyman 1 in their so called system. I couldn't shoe a straight simple horse at that time very well, and they would have given me a Journeyman 1? I'd say there standards ain't to high. As far as experts, from the u-tube vids I've seen and stuff on RFD TV, expert is not what comes to mind. And if they do research, let's see the papers, articles, data, double blind studies, etc. that show the results and findings from that research. If you can't produce those, then shut the heck up.:rolleyes:
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 09 May 2009 07:32 #28

  • Bill Adams
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Kelly Case wrote:
Two: According to the attorneys present at the BWFA BOD meeting, the AFA is trying to monopolize the industry and with the slander and lies that have been perpetuated about the BWFA and some other individuals in the industry, there is a basis for a class action suit against the AFA and many of its members.
Kelly Case BWFA CJF II

When you say "monopolize" do you mean something like they would like lots and lots of Farriers to join the AFA (gasp, scream)?
As to the slander and lies I don't know that I have heard any of that, but the true stories I've heard and experienced are pretty darn humorous and damming.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 09 May 2009 10:50 #29

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BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
As far as experts, from the u-tube vids I've seen and stuff on RFD TV, expert is not what comes to mind.
But the somewhat buxom blonde is kinda cute......That window dressing kinda distracts the viewer from listening to the fairy tales and Junk Science being spewed offered up for dissection and [in]digestion........YMMV.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Official Statement from the BWFA on Farrier Licensing 09 May 2009 12:11 #30

  • solidrockshoer
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National Research Farriers Whatever, is to equine research what Girls Gone wild is to human mating habbits.

Bill
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