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TOPIC: You Are A Liberal If???????

RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 13:41 #91

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
It's a pity I can't vote for "None of the Above." :)
Yes you can:
None of the Above (NOTA) or against all is a ballot choice in some jurisdictions or organizations, placed so as to allow the voter to indicate his disapproval with all of the candidates in any voting system. It is based on the principle that all legitimate consent requires the ability to withhold consent, allowing voters to withhold their consent in an election to office, just as they can by voting "no" on ballot questions.

Just figuring
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 13:53 #92

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
God asked Cain where his brother was because Cain had killed him and thought he was going to get away with it..
Seems when presented with the first murder trial, God didn't apply the death penalty. It amazes me how often folks miss the overwhealming message of the bible. I can sum the whole book up into one word:

forgiveness

But what do I know. I'm an agnostic.
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 14:31 #93

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tbloomer wrote:
Seems when presented with the first murder trial, God didn't apply the death penalty. It amazes me how often folks miss the overwhealming message of the bible. I can sum the whole book up into one word:

forgiveness

But what do I know. I'm an agnostic.

I can sum up the Bible in a sentance. Salvation is by grace through faith.

Much of the Bible illustrates why we are all in need of forgiveness and none of us is good enough to gain salvation on our own merit. We can't measure up. The penalty for not measuring up is death...eternal death.

We only gain salvation (forgiveness) through the intercession of Christ. It's a gift (by grace). We don't deserve it, we don't earn it and we can't do it for ourselves.

One of the real lessons in the account of Cain and Able is in the reason that Abels's gift to God was received well and Cain's wasn't.
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 14:57 #94

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George Geist wrote:
Punchline though was the question "Am I my brothers keeper?" For extra credit what was the correct answer? We can PM if others think this inappropriate.
George

God warned Cain that sin was at the door (Gen 4:7). It was and his brother Able died as a result. I think the answer to your question is that we are our brothers keeper in that our sin effects others.
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 14:57 #95

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
I can sum up the Bible in a sentance. Salvation is by grace through faith.

Much of the Bible illustrates why we are all in need of forgiveness and none of us is good enough to gain salvation on our own merit. We can't measure up. The penalty for not measuring up is death...eternal death.

We only gain salvation (forgiveness) through the intercession of Christ. It's a gift (by grace). We don't deserve it, we don't earn it and we can't do it for ourselves.

One of the real lessons in the account of Cain and Able is in the reason that Abels's gift to God was received well and Cain's wasn't.
Neither Cain or Abel deserved it or earned it . . . right? In which case, why place any value on the gift (works) if the only thing what matters is "faith?"

I've always wondered what "eternity" awaits those who have lived and died without the benefit of ever "knowing" about the "one true God" and the "faith requirement." What "eternity" awaits all those souls what never had the benefit of a Christian education?

I suppose the answer is . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


. . . . . . . .

IT DEPENDS. :D





.
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 15:11 #96

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George Geist wrote:
Punchline though was the question "Am I my brothers keeper?" For extra credit what was the correct answer?
It depends.:D Is the respondant a Democrat? Republican? Independent?

What is his/her religious persuasion, if any? Is the Bible fact or fantasy or a mix of both? Why were somethings left out of the Bible? Why, because those writing it had a political agenda!

Since, according to legend and lore, there is only one People with whom God made a covenant(everyone else has tried to make a covenent with God, a small but significant difference), why, well, you get the general drift of what I am implying...........
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 15:13 #97

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tbloomer wrote:
Seems when presented with the first murder trial, God didn't apply the death penalty. It amazes me how often folks miss the overwhealming message of the bible. I can sum the whole book up into one word:

forgiveness
Yep, that book is certainly filled with a myriad of examples of forgiveness:eek::o
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 15:18 #98

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
We can't measure up. The penalty for not measuring up is death...eternal death.
I was not aware that there was any other kind of death. Even Houdini couldn't overcome that fact.....
We only gain salvation (forgiveness) through the intercession of Christ. It's a gift (by grace). We don't deserve it, we don't earn it and we can't do it for ourselves.
That's just one political point of view.
One of the real lessons in the account of Cain and Able is in the reason that Abels's gift to God was received well and Cain's wasn't.
For a believer, I understood that the lesson is "He knows when you've been sleeping, He knows when you're awake, He knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake..."

Oh, wait, that's Santa Claus. Another myth with legend and lore.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 15:31 #99

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
God warned Cain that sin was at the door (Gen 4:7). It was and his brother Able died as a result. I think the answer to your question is that we are our brothers keeper in that our sin effects others.
Yes true,
The interesting thing about that story was this as I learned from an old Rabbi friend. Cain asked God the question not to mouth off or anything but because he really wanted to know is his brother his responsibility or not?

God did not answer him, instead he used the whole rest of the Bible to answer that question and ultimately it comes down to us. It's our choice. If we choose to be our brothers keeper then the whole creation and history of mankind from beginning to end is the greatest thing God ever did. If we choose not to be then the whole thing was an incredible waste of time.

So it's all up to us. Free choice is always there. thats the moral to the story
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 16:27 #100

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tbloomer wrote:
Neither Cain or Abel deserved it or earned it . . . right? In which case, why place any value on the gift (works) if the only thing what matters is "faith?"

When Adam and Eve screwed up, they tried to cover their nakedness (sin) with leaves. God killed animals and covered them with skins. Only God could cover their sin.

You will hear/read different ideas on why cain's offering wasn't respected but I think part of it was that his offering was a product of his work and in oposition ot God's previous instruction. Ables offering was one of blood.

I've always wondered what "eternity" awaits those who have lived and died without the benefit of ever "knowing" about the "one true God" and the "faith requirement." What "eternity" awaits all those souls what never had the benefit of a Christian education?

I suppose the answer is . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

That's a good question but not a simple one. I don't think the Bible gives us a direct answer but does give some hints.

The Bible says that God's justice and wisdom is perfect. We're told that they are without excuss (Rom 1:20). In John 6:44 Jesus says "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him: And I will raise him up on the last day." Does the Father's ability to call have limits?
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 16:49 #101

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Rick Burten wrote:
I was not aware that there was any other kind of death. Even Houdini couldn't overcome that fact.....


The other kind of death is spiritual death.
John 3:6, 7 says "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. do not marvel that I I said to you, you must be born again."
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 17:15 #102

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Rick Burten wrote:
For a believer, I understood that the lesson is "He knows when you've been sleeping, He knows when you're awake, He knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake..."

Oh, wait, that's Santa Claus. Another myth with legend and lore.

Paul said in 1 Cor 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

20, Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has God not made foolish the Wisdom of this world? 21, For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 17:23 #103

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
The other kind of death is spiritual death.
John 3:6, 7 says "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. do not marvel that I I said to you, you must be born again."
That's one view. And the quote sure has some political undertones.
Paul said in 1 Cor 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

20, Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has God not made foolish the Wisdom of this world? 21, For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
These guys would be right at home today, managing political campaigns.

They seem to be good at spin doctoring.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 17:45 #104

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Rick Burten wrote:
These guys would be right at home today, managing political campaigns.

They seem to be good at spin doctoring.

But they weren't managing political campaigns. Their message wasn't at all popular and most were treated rather poorly or even killed for their efforts. Even today, persecution or ridicule (at the very least) often goes with the territory.
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RE:You Are A Liberal If??????? 17 Feb 2008 18:10 #105

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
But they weren't managing political campaigns.
Sure they were. You think religion isn't political?
Their message wasn't at all popular and most were treated rather poorly or even killed for their efforts. Even today, persecution or ridicule (at the very least) often goes with the territory.
Yep. And its still about politics.:)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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