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TOPIC: Problems in California

RE:Problems in California 12 May 2009 20:20 #61

calshoer wrote:
Because they can make a lot of money if they are on the board a lot, and not suffer any more harm than if they were running as a winner against winners. Heck, We had a 3 year old maiden allowance colt (who never started until he was 3) who made the majority of his lifetime earnings running second place in maiden allowance races. (five in a row...often just a nose, it got to be kinda funny) ...its not such a bad thing because once they 'break their maiden' and win one, then have to run against other winners, its a lot harder for them then.
A maiden runnng on the board in his level can make a living for a barn running just off the winning pace, and last a long time doing it. It's not so bad. And the ones who are running 'out of the money' all the time get retired to other jobs quickly anyway because they are a huge loss economically. It sorts itself out.
Patty

Sorry Patty; your right to an extent,
......but,.....I meant they can't even hit the board.....being more hayburners..........and the owners keep paying day rate on them, and the vet on them, ect. Maybe they will win one more race to pay off the bills to everyone owed for the last 6 months, ect.
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RE:Problems in California 13 May 2009 17:21 #62

George had to point out something to me as well.

Apparently extreme grieve and stress gives way to your emotions and recall::o

I have to make a correction: Afleet Alex didn't win the Derby '05; it was Giagomo. He won the Preakness after a huge stumble in the gate.
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RE:Problems in California 13 May 2009 22:49 #63

  • Jaye Perry
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ladyblacksmith-, used Izumi #3 nails, and Victory or TB.

racetrackers........paint feet with reducine to stimulate growth quickly, sometimes with corona on the coronary band everyday too,...........also pack the bottoms with buey clay, or sole pack everyday too

THAT IS SO OLD SCHOOL!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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RE:Problems in California 14 May 2009 01:50 #64

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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ladyblacksmith in gray, stuff deleted

He used pony clinchers, used
Izumi #3 nails, and Victory or TB.

Has Izumi changed their sizes since I retired to building rabbit cages? I usta love Izumi #1 race nails, they were infinitely better than Capewell #3 1/2s or Mustad #4s and I even used the old thick shanked Izumi #4 plater's specials (pls) and #4 city head on hunters and jumpers that had plenty of wall, but I never knew Izumi made a #3. (I know, I know: there's a helluva lot of things I don't know and I'm dating myself)

racetrackers........paint feet with reducine to stimulate growth quickly, sometimes with corona on the coronary band everyday too,...

Vic Alexander, DVM (Validictorian of his class and a great vet!) did a study at Texas A&M when he was in vet school involving about 100 brood mares. First, he epoxied a marker on the dorsum of their front hooves, then he and several other members of his class used vibrators (Yup, that kind!) to massage Reducine into the coronary bands of the broodmares, with the right side getting the treatment and left side going untreated.

Result? Absolutely no difference in growth rate! (Don't you know somebody in the vet school's procurement office had a hissy when the bill for those vibrators came through?) :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Problems in California 14 May 2009 12:17 #65

Jaye Perry wrote:
THAT IS SO OLD SCHOOL!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I am old school too!!!!! with a smile!!!!!
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RE:Problems in California 14 May 2009 12:19 #66

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
ladyblacksmith in gray, stuff deleted

He used pony clinchers, used
Izumi #3 nails, and Victory or TB.

Has Izumi changed their sizes since I retired to building rabbit cages? I usta love Izumi #1 race nails, they were infinitely better than Capewell #3 1/2s or Mustad #4s and I even used the old thick shanked Izumi #4 plater's specials (pls) and #4 city head on hunters and jumpers that had plenty of wall, but I never knew Izumi made a #3. (I know, I know: there's a helluva lot of things I don't know and I'm dating myself)

racetrackers........paint feet with reducine to stimulate growth quickly, sometimes with corona on the coronary band everyday too,...

Vic Alexander, DVM (Validictorian of his class and a great vet!) did a study at Texas A&M when he was in vet school involving about 100 brood mares. First, he epoxied a marker on the dorsum of their front hooves, then he and several other members of his class used vibrators (Yup, that kind!) to massage Reducine into the coronary bands of the broodmares, with the right side getting the treatment and left side going untreated.

Result? Absolutely no difference in growth rate! (Don't you know somebody in the vet school's procurement office had a hissy when the bill for those vibrators came through?) :)

I love you Tom!!!!!!!

and...I won't go there with the vibraters though:eek:
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RE:Problems in California 14 May 2009 12:37 #67

  • tbloomer
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Vic Alexander, DVM (Validictorian of his class and a great vet!) did a study at Texas A&M when he was in vet school involving about 100 brood mares. First, he epoxied a marker on the dorsum of their front hooves, then he and several other members of his class used vibrators (Yup, that kind!) to massage Reducine into the coronary bands of the broodmares, with the right side getting the treatment and left side going untreated.

Result? Absolutely no difference in growth rate! (Don't you know somebody in the vet school's procurement office had a hissy when the bill for those vibrators came through?) :)
Sounds like he proved that vibrators prevent reducine from working as claimed. :confused: :cool:
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Problems in California 14 May 2009 12:40 #68

tbloomer wrote:
Sounds like he proved that vibrators prevent reducine from working as claimed. :confused: :cool:

Well vibrators were not being used for their rightful purpose!!:eek:
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RE:Problems in California 14 May 2009 14:15 #69

  • Mark_Gough
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
Well vibrators were not being used for their rightful purpose!!:eek:

Focus Linda, focus! ;)
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RE:Problems in California 14 May 2009 16:27 #70

Mark_Gough wrote:
Focus Linda, focus! ;)

I will try to focus and behave myself. I promise Smitty88 I would on the free shoes thread:rolleyes:
I guess no popcorn tonite!:eek:
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RE:Problems in California 15 May 2009 00:08 #71

  • mwmyersdvm
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I am not fan of toe grabs, but I think there are quite a variety of other things going on behind the scenes that are adding to the problem and definitely are not discussed. Race horse trainers are always searching for the 'magic cocktail' to make horses run faster (jump higher, etc :) and they are using a variety of products in an attempt to get past drug testing. We don't know how successful they are since this is not a topic for general discussion. The 'drug dejour' is M99 (etorphine) in very low doses and these guys are actually hiring unscrupulous chemists to design ways around the testing.
Additionally, blocking the nerves in the horses' heels has got to be taking its toll and I would think that this is a big issue in the 'out of the gate stumbles' as one tiny misstep when your proprioceptors are numbed can become a major catastrophy. Trying to block only the heels nerves is actually just that, a 'try', as you usually wind up blocking most of the hoof or if you want to add more volume and a bit of strategic massage you can just about get to the pastern joint.
Just a personal soapbox of mine.
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RE:Problems in California 15 May 2009 01:10 #72

  • George Geist
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mwmyersdvm wrote:
I am not fan of toe grabs, but I think there are quite a variety of other things going on behind the scenes that are adding to the problem and definitely are not discussed. Race horse trainers are always searching for the 'magic cocktail' to make horses run faster (jump higher, etc :) and they are using a variety of products in an attempt to get past drug testing. We don't know how successful they are since this is not a topic for general discussion. The 'drug dejour' is M99 (etorphine) in very low doses and these guys are actually hiring unscrupulous chemists to design ways around the testing.
Additionally, blocking the nerves in the horses' heels has got to be taking its toll and I would think that this is a big issue in the 'out of the gate stumbles' as one tiny misstep when your proprioceptors are numbed can become a major catastrophy. Trying to block only the heels nerves is actually just that, a 'try', as you usually wind up blocking most of the hoof or if you want to add more volume and a bit of strategic massage you can just about get to the pastern joint.
Just a personal soapbox of mine.
Feel free doctor I welcome stuff like this as it's a personal issue with me too.
Some of the stuff being done is deplorable. What makes it worse is officials turning their heads to this stuff.
The only thing that will bring it under control is a national centralised body to oversee racing everywhere.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Problems in California 15 May 2009 02:21 #73

  • Gary Hill
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M-99, labeled years ago as "Elephant Juice" and requires a M- 50/50 antidote. We used alot of it, and I can assure you it doesn't take much to take down anything! Wonder what they are cutting it with?
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Problems in California 15 May 2009 04:04 #74

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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mwmyersdvm in gray

I am not fan of toe grabs, but I think there are quite a variety of other things going on behind the scenes that are adding to the problem and definitely are not discussed. Race horse trainers are always searching for the 'magic cocktail' to make horses run faster (jump higher, etc :) and they are using a variety of products in an attempt to get past drug testing. We don't know how successful they are since this is not a topic for general discussion. The 'drug dejour' is M99 (etorphine) in very low doses and these guys are actually hiring unscrupulous chemists to design ways around the testing.


Doc, as you know, you can't make a horse run any faster than it can, but you can sure as hell keep them from hurting. Horses have been running on elephant juice (aka, "EJ") since the 1980's. The effective dosage so small (a few tenths of a ml for a 1,000 lb horse), that neither the drug nor nor its metabolites can be found by racing chemists and it takes a strong narcotic antagonist like M50/50 or Narcan to avoid fatal respiratory depression. To my personal knowledge, a certain South Texas trainer stabled at Goliad's old La Behia Downs killed quite a few horses getting the dosage dialed in just right - but hey, he won lots of races.

Additionally, blocking the nerves in the horses' heels has got to be taking its toll and I would think that this is a big issue in the 'out of the gate stumbles' as one tiny misstep when your proprioceptors are numbed can become a major catastrophy.

Most trainers don't give a damn about pinheads and Everclear is cheap. Ever wonder what would happen if they tested every horse for heel sensation while they had 'em in the test barn? I think it'd be standing room only for the trainers at the next SRC meeting and the Form would have run an extra edition to list all the rulings.

Trying to block only the heels nerves is actually just that, a 'try', as you usually wind up blocking most of the hoof or if you want to add more volume and a bit of strategic massage you can just about get to the pastern joint.


Why mess with the digital nerves when a ring block will get everything?

Just a personal soapbox of mine.


I gave the same talk to a bunch of vet students at A&M on several occasions back when Dr. MacMullin was running the show. Nobody listened then; nobody is listening now. :(
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Problems in California 15 May 2009 12:07 #75

  • tbloomer
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
I love you Tom!!!!!!!
According to Stovall himself, he ain't as good as he once was, but he's as good once as he ever was. :D

Linda, you don't have a chance. You're cute, but you can't compete. Stovall is covered up with more real show bunnies then Hugh Hefner ever had.
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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