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TOPIC: Problems in California

RE:Problems in California 17 Nov 2007 03:44 #46

  • calshoer
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It is when vets play farrier, and are not farriers who have shod at the track, can forge, swedge, and take the Union test, and have applied these avenues for many years; and understand the TRACK MENTALITY of the racetrack world.
It's not about belittling: it's about not taking racing as a whole, and understanding the many difficult positions that the platers are made to face in everyday situations! which the outside world does not understand.
Example: NOT getting paid, rank and dangerous horses to shoe, trainers who will fire you for not putting on the shoes they want, even if means breaking down the horse!, claimed horses and not getting paid for the last shoe job, expense of racing plates and nails to keeping going till we do get paid. It is not hard to for a trainer to run up a 15,000 shoeing bill, and then pull stakes, and move. Owners refusing to pay the trainer, vet bills, horseshoer, feed man, stall rent at the track, and paying the hired help, jockeys, exersize riders, hotwalkers, and grooms, and list goes on.
And what does ANY of that have to do with studies about toe grabs?
Patty
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RE:Problems in California 17 Nov 2007 03:49 #47

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The family has asked me NOT to say his name out of respect.
I was at the track, and I was there at the racetrack, when he was shoeing the horse, and his son the horse for the Derby.....They have the shoes, pictures to prove it, and there is nothing else to say.
I said Travis shod the horse BEFORE the Arkansas derby, when the horse was training, not FOR the derby.
The point was that they used NB shoes. (no toe grabs..the whole subject of ths thread) to correct some hoof issues ,so your anonymous mentor and son were not the only people to ever shoe that horse during that time, as you insist.
Patty
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RE:Problems in California 17 Nov 2007 04:10 #48

  • dave murray
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patty. no shoer i know willingly uses toe grabs anymore. but as you know trainers are a strange lot and they would use rocket fuel if they thought it would give them an inch of an edge.
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RE:Problems in California 17 Nov 2007 12:11 #49

  • Jaye Perry
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ladyblacksmith............Example: NOT getting paid, rank and dangerous horses to shoe, trainers who will fire you for not putting on the shoes they want, even if means breaking down the horse!, claimed horses and not getting paid for the last shoe job, expense of racing plates and nails to keeping going till we do get paid. It is not hard to for a trainer to run up a 15,000 shoeing bill, and then pull stakes, and move. Owners refusing to pay the trainer, vet bills, horseshoer, feed man, stall rent at the track, and paying the hired help, jockeys, exersize riders, hotwalkers, and grooms, and list goes on

It is not just on the track, it's the same everywhere. Just change a few intenties in your response and there you will have what goes on 'Outside" the track game:rolleyes:
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RE:Problems in California 18 Nov 2007 21:07 #50

dave murray wrote:
patty. no shoer i know willingly uses toe grabs anymore. but as you know trainers are a strange lot and they would use rocket fuel if they thought it would give them an inch of an edge.

Very true, and trainers can also shoe the horse at the track if they like, and owner are allowed to shoe their own horses anyway they see fit. I pulled shoes off a juvenile horse over 3 months ago who had broke down [bowed both tendons]after one shoe job the owner had done in glue since they didn't know how to nail on a shoe.
I almost threw up over the smell and rotted look of the foot, and the mere pain this horse was in. It had black juice coming out of it's white line, and dead blood at the bottom of it foot. The toe was over 4 inches long.
The little 2 1/2 year old colt is doing nicely now. I'll shoe him this Friday coming up with wide web aluminums and he's turn out all winter to mature.
Come spring, I'll shoe him in queens all around.

Also, trainers have been known to inject with cobra veniom in the joints, themselves. I knew personally of a trainer who would take the joint fluid out of one horse that couldn't run anymore, and inject their fluid in another horse to save on vet bills.
Also, something about MAPP 50 to inject the joints with??
________
Body Science
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RE:Problems in California 19 Nov 2007 12:05 #51

ladyblacksmith wrote:
Very true, and trainers can also shoe the horse at the track if they like, and owner are allowed to shoe their own horses anyway they see fit. I pulled shoes off a juvenile horse over 3 months ago who had broke down [bowed both tendons]after one shoe job the owner had done in glue since they didn't know how to nail on a shoe.
I almost threw up over the smell and rotted look of the foot, and the mere pain this horse was in. It had black juice coming out of it's white line, and dead blood at the bottom of it foot. The toe was over 4 inches long.
The little 2 1/2 year old colt is doing nicely now. I'll shoe him this Friday coming up with wide web aluminums and he's turn out all winter to mature.
Come spring, I'll shoe him in queens all around.

Also, trainers have been known to inject with cobra veniom in the joints, themselves. I knew personally of a trainer who would take the joint fluid out of one horse that couldn't run anymore, and inject their fluid in another horse to save on vet bills.
Also, something about MAPP 50 to inject the joints with??

Getting of the toe-grab issue for a moment:

It is "how" we are racing horses today!!!!!!! The whole industry need a complete overhaul on how trainers get their liciences, including platers, vets, ect.
We are blaming a piece of metal across the toe, when we should be looking at the "How we breed, train, race, shoe, medicated, track management and the lack of turn out for these racehorses", and whose careers are usally over at the TENDER age of 5 years old!!!!! They have broken so badly, that they don't go off to be showhorses instead. WHAT A SAD TESTAMENT!!

We also need to revamp the "Conditions" book ALSO!!! [which no one brought up in the subject on] how many times a horse has to run as a Maiden/not won in so many times since last year, ect., and why these horses are not going off to other careers.
Food for thought............................Linda........................
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RE:Problems in California 20 Nov 2007 14:31 #52

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We also need to revamp the "Conditions" book ALSO!!! [which no one brought up in the subject on] how many times a horse has to run as a Maiden/not won in so many times since last year, ect., and why these horses are not going off to other careers.
Because they can make a lot of money if they are on the board a lot, and not suffer any more harm than if they were running as a winner against winners. Heck, We had a 3 year old maiden allowance colt (who never started until he was 3) who made the majority of his lifetime earnings running second place in maiden allowance races. (five in a row...often just a nose, it got to be kinda funny) ...its not such a bad thing because once they 'break their maiden' and win one, then have to run against other winners, its a lot harder for them then.
A maiden runnng on the board in his level can make a living for a barn running just off the winning pace, and last a long time doing it. It's not so bad. And the ones who are running 'out of the money' all the time get retired to other jobs quickly anyway because they are a huge loss economically. It sorts itself out.
Patty
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RE:Problems in California 25 Nov 2007 17:00 #53

  • George Geist
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dave murray wrote:
now that i have vented about trainers and vets i would like to hear some opinons on the lastest style of useing turndowns or bends as they call them now.i see in new york and in maryland now more and more horses wearing stickers and bends on fast racetracks, can this be good?
Dave,
To the best of my knowledge turn-downs are banned just about everywhere now. Have been for a number of years. I seldom see stickers anymore but 1/4" bends seem to be very popular where legal.

New York likes to shoe a large number of horses that way mainly because Cigar wore those type shoes from what I understand.

Is anybody'd guess as to whether or not they really improve performance or not. I'd just as soon go with a block if up to me but that's the trainer's call.

Seems not to bother them if on hind since the forelegs are the ones that more often than not give out first.

George
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RE:Problems in California 25 Nov 2007 17:58 #54

  • dave murray
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George, i had a couple of horses come my way from NY , one had bends on all fours (much more then 1/4") the other horse had front stickers (twisted off) and bends behind i would say a good 1/2". when we looked at the forms on these horses they had both been running on fast racetracks. found it quite odd that they would use stickers and bends all around on fast tracks. bends and turndowns have always been banned in canada. do you see or use a lot of bends where you shoe?
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RE:Problems in California 25 Nov 2007 18:24 #55

  • George Geist
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No,
Is not legal here. Most shoeing is pretty plain no frills type stuff lately.

Typical job is either a Queens, XLT, or outer rim front, and a plain or block hind. Hinds will usually have grabs unless running on turf.

Sounds like you've been seeing some pretty freaky stuff. NY allows jar caulks on front which are usually broken off when no longer necessary. If you saw front turn downs or 1/4 bends shame on them. It wasn't legal.

Hey,
Just thought of something. Where in NY are these horses coming from? Reason I ask is because that state has 2 governing bodies of racing for TBs.

The tracks covered by NYRA (Aqueduct Belmont Saratoga) are as 1st class and good as racing gets in this country. Finger Lakes OTOH is not part of NYRA and is a somewhat cheap trashy gyp track. In all likelihood the place probably has different rules. Would need to check the condition book.

This could be the reason for what you're seeing,
George
For another fun place to play........
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RE:Problems in California 26 Nov 2007 01:27 #56

  • dave murray
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George, these horses came from saratoga and belmont or Aqueduct two of them from Nick Zito's barn and i think the other one from Bobby Frankel's barn. what track do you mostly shoe at?
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RE:Problems in California 22 Feb 2008 04:18 #57

Linda

Earlier you posted that Afleet Alex was shod on a 4 week Schedule. I know it's done, but I'm curious, how much foot did he take off? How high did he drive the nails? If really low, What type of chincher did he use. What size and brand of nails and shoes? Did he shoe all horses on a 4 week schedule or just those with good growth? How did he avoid same old nail holes on those with limited growth? What did he do with the horses that had rotton walls.

Thanks
Roger
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RE:Problems in California 22 Feb 2008 04:29 #58

In my bussiness, I have quite a few that are shod on a four week schedule during the summer..I'll have atleast a 1/4 inch to remove...no probelem driving nails. A horse working and in shape can easily grow 1/4 to 3/8 inch of foot in that time. If the happen to be western pleasure horses they start to lift in the knee and you are asked to "leave more heel, he is poppin". So you trim off the growth, rocker the toe on the AL triumph and he is flat again... for four or five weeks...;)
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
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RE:Problems in California 12 May 2009 17:46 #59

George Geist wrote:
Many thanks to Fran Jurga for posting this on her website

http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2007/11/breakdowns-mar-first-weeks-of-racing-on.html

California has traditionally been in the forefront of new ideas. This year they have quite predictably dove headfirst into the new racing surface mania sweeping the country.

It would appear that they've had some setbacks out there.

How about it Tom Trosin, what are you guys going to do about this latest grave problem?!:confused:

Anybody have any comments on this?
George


Here's some more on this..............no testing on platers either.
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RE:Problems in California 12 May 2009 17:48 #60

Roger Williams wrote:
Linda

Earlier you posted that Afleet Alex was shod on a 4 week Schedule. I know it's done, but I'm curious, how much foot did he take off? How high did he drive the nails? If really low, What type of chincher did he use. What size and brand of nails and shoes? Did he shoe all horses on a 4 week schedule or just those with good growth? How did he avoid same old nail holes on those with limited growth? What did he do with the horses that had rotton walls.

Thanks
Roger

Sorry I never answered you. He used pony clinchers, used Izumi #3 nails, and Victory or TB.

racetrackers........paint feet with reducine to stimulate growth quickly, sometimes with corona on the coronary band everyday too,...........also pack the bottoms with buey clay, or sole pack everyday too.
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