Moral, immoral makes no difference to me. You want to kill me and mine, I'm going to do my best to kill you first. Radical Islam leaves no room for any other POV or beliefs. Its their way or the graveyard. Personally, I'm more that willing to fill the graveyard with their dead.

The "war" in the Middle East and elsewhere will continue until one side or the other either completely annihilates the other, or so completely subjugates the other that no resistance is offered, ever.

Unfortunately, whatever lessons may have been learned from wars/conflicts fought by Americans, including the American Revolution, have either been lost or are so unpalatable to some segments of the American population, that these lessons are ignored. And ignored at great peril and unnecessary(IMNTBCHO) loss of life, though it does seem to be a boon to the military-industrial complex.

Personally, it is more difficult for me to humanely euthanize one of my dogs than it would be to kill someone who is trying to kill me. And since both sides of the equation will always claim the moral high ground, I want my high ground to be higher than theirs, though I can certainly adapt to fight from the sewers if necessary.

And, a special thanks for all those men and women of the Armed Forces of any nation who daily lay it on the line to keep me and mine safe! Semper Fi! http://www.semperfimarine.com/

ps: I stand firmly with the American Business whose ad states: "We would rather serve 100,00 Islamic terrorists than one American!" That advertisement was made by a funeral home.

Mike Ferrara wrote:We can't leave. A victory for them after we give up as we have in Viet
nam, Somalia, Lebanon, etc. will encourage them as it did in those other countries, as well as setting up a base with huge resorces.
We are winning in spite of our press and congress, read what Guy wrote and the others who have been there.
Gota go more later

Bill Adams wrote:
A major problem is the fact that there is no "them". There are several "factions" and within those there are probably hundreds of tribes. They all want to be the boss. Once the Sunni kill all the Shia, they start fighting eachother.

Set one group up as the police force or army and you just gave them the power to slaughter the other group. Try to stop them and they turn on you. There are no good guys over there.

Rick Burten wrote:
That all sounds great but I don't think we're doing much kiling of the "other side" over there.

My son is in Iraq now. God willing, he'll be on his way back to the states in a few days. You should talk to him about what they really spend their days doing over there and what he thinks about it.

I'm all for keeping "me and mine" safe and free but some little gamoke out in a desert on the other side of the world is the least of my worries.

Mike Ferrara wrote:Well we certainly aren't killing our own are we. At least, not intentionally. And yet again we see the result when politicians get to be the puppetmasters.I will hold him in my thoughts and await the news that he is safely home. He has my thanks and admiration. As do all the men and women who stand in harms way for us.How ya' gonna feel when that little gamoke or his brothers, sisters, cousins, etc ad naseum come to your front door, guns in hand? Personally, I'd rather deal with them over there. And the ones that manage to make it over here, need to rapidly acquire those vaunted virgins they've been promised. But lets send them there wrapped in pigskin. Maybe then, others will at last get the message.

Guy_Buck wrote:
Unlike you Guy, I made the Iraqi trip, was there before the start. I saw the way Sadam treated his people and how they lived, while he live in his palaces, ate fine foods, enjoyed life with his buddies. I got to know some average Iraqi people trying to just make a living. Many were glad Sadam was gone and thanks me for that. But on the other hand we as westerners didn't understand their customs and ways of life. What it was that was offensive to them, so mistakes were made and drove many to "getting even". In their culture once offended they take action to save face - this is very important to them, the old eye for an eye thing. Also the fact there wasn't enough troops to fully secure the country so every Tom, Dick and Harry terrorists across the arab world came to the play ground to have fun and do what they wanted. Now the al Qeada boys and many other hard line factions are firmly rooted doing their hardest to disrupt the country. On top of this you have the religious factions which have been at each others necks for how many thousands of years? It's not a very good mix for a quick easy fix. In fact IMO there will never be a fix to the problems in the Middle East. But I know one thing - we westerners can not go into this area and force feed our ways, type of democracy and life style on a people who have established their own ways for thousands of years and don't want to change.

Yes the time I spent down there (14months) I would gladly do it over again, but I just wish some of the mistakes would be corrected. Also unless you have been there and seen for your self, lived there and get to know the people you will never fully understand.

Rick Burten wrote:
That's a good question. The first thing that comes to mind is the number of people in this country who want to take my guns away.

The second thing that comes to mind is my neighbors who actually had this happen. Well, it wasn't a Muslim who came to the door but a guy from Arkansas who drove up looking for someone. He got the wrong house but shot everybody anyway. They answered the door and he let them have it with a shotgun killing the elderly parents and severely wounding the daughter.You don't have that choice. The dangerous ones are already here. They are in our universities learning the biology, chemistry and physics they need to kill us. The guys who flew the planes into those buildings took their flight training here. We probably shouldn't forget incidents like Oklahoma City either...it was Americans that did that.


Well, so much for our safety. Lets talk about our freedom. I just heard from a friend of mine. He's a native born American who, as far as I know, hasn't ever even been out of the country...except for some work he did with the Rotary on an orphanage and a hospitol in South America someplace and a couple of Caribbean vacations. He is, or maybe I should say "was", the trustee of a trust left by his grandfather (another natural US citizen) but the bank informs him that a provision in the Patriot Act identifies his as being subject to political pressure which disqualifies him from acting as trustee.

I think there are some very real threats to our safety and freedoms here but the Muslims are way down on the list.

Guy_Buck wrote:
Thank you Guy, and to all of the US millitary for try to help and make a difference in the world.
What a wonderful picture of children, for they are the our future; and "FREEDOM!!!" that my dear, IS the price!

.........THANK YOU!!!!..........with love, Linda..................
________
Mexicocity Hotel

Mike,
Formost is to hope and pray for your son's safe return, and please convay my thanks for his service.
What will help get all these waring factions to live in harmony is money. The same way it got all those waring tribes in what is now Britin to quit, and Europe, and SE Aisa, south Africa, the Americas and most of the middle east.
Stability makes war alot less nessary and stability in Iraq makes things better here and over the whole region.
If we give up now the bad guys see a victory and our alies see another stab in the back, and the whole place becomes a base for the "conversion of the Great Satan".
My $0.02 from the comfort of my nice house, in a nice country, that Mike's son, Guy, Mikel, and all you others have made posible.
Thank you,
Bill

Mike Ferrara wrote:We can start right here at home with the democratic left, the main stream media, hollywood, and any other person who is in an elected postion or appointed postion within our governments, local, state, or national, who truly does not understand our constitution. And who does not inforce our laws or secure our boarders.

Bill, I think you're right about the money. When people are comfortable, they seem less inclined to go out looking for trouble.

Much of the world is a mess and I sure don't claim to have the solution. As the father of a Marine, I appreciate the well wishes for our service men and women. I've passed those well wishes on to my son and I think he appreciates them too.

A couple of months back my son had his LAV blown out from under him. He escaped serious injury but all his gear was destroyed so it was close. Just this morning he was telling me about a buddy of his who was killed. As much as anyone, I would love to believe that there is some sense to all this.

Gary_Miller wrote:
I agree! Our first line in the defence of our freedom is our consitution and there seem to be plenty (republicans and democrats) who would butcher it if we let them. Too many seem to have forgotten how and why it came to be...or maybe it just doesn't suit their purpose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoxxix0QQdU

Gday Mike
As an Aussie old enough to remember the help the U.S was to us down under in saving our bacon from the Japs , I'm thinking of you yours and every other parent and their kids past and present and those in the future from all nations frighting the terrorist

from my heart you have my deepest sympathy, my most profound respect my eternal gratitude and my undying love

Good on ya Mate

Im not a praying kind of man but Im saying some for you'all

I think beslagsmed said it pretty well. Being a vet of both Iraq and Afghanistan: I think one thing we need to remember is that Iraq, the neighboring countries, and people have been at war since biblical times, it's part of their culture. Anyone who suggested this would be quick and easy was a *****. I don't think it's ever really going to get right, but what do I know. My biggest problem with Iraq is that it's turned into a policing effort. Last I checked we weren't really trained per say to keep the piece. We come in, kill everything (Semper Fi!!) and move on. It reminds me of Vietnam, to much sitting around waiting for things to happen, not enough hunting in general. Afghanistan on the other had I think we are doing a great job leaps and bounds, lots of hunting. I was fortunate enough in both cases where my teams sole responsibility was snatch and grabs of high profile target. Mission statement: capture anything willing, kill everything else, amen. Wish all teams could be that way. In Afghanistan my team was responsable of over 500 captured or killed, not bad for a 12 man crew. Sad part is in Iraq, we didn't even come close to those numbers, it's just a completely different war. My biggest wish (other than turning Iraq and Afghanistan into a lake) is to make all the reporters actually report all the good things that service members are doing. How many families they have helped. The sacrifices made, etc, etc. Burns my hide. I thought I'd attach a few Hoorah pictures to add to the mood. Enjoy.