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TOPIC: JHU & AFA

RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 05:21 #106

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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ladyblacksmith in gray

Hey baby Tom, You take my test; I'll take your test......and we'll have all the guys judge on "the Match".

Hot damn, a challenge!

I have little interest in your abilities, but you appear skeptical of mine. So, if you and yours want to bet a little on whether or not I still have the ability to swage out block and sticker hinds and bar shoe fronts and get them nailed on something in the time alloted for the JHU test, you brought me.

Please be aware that swinging a hammer quit being fun a long time ago and it'll take more than chump change to make me dig out my swage blocks. But, I will, if the price is right. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 10:45 #107

J.H. shoeing wrote:
Linda please post the arrest title and federal statute number for this offense. :confused:


Plater slipped in, had old licence, was high.
________
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 10:56 #108

Tom Stovall, CJF]ladyblacksmith in gray

Hey baby Tom, You take my test wrote:

Hot damn, a challenge!

I have little interest in your abilities, but you appear skeptical of mine. So, if you and yours want to bet a little on whether or not I still have the ability to swage out block and sticker hinds and bar shoe fronts and get them nailed on something in the time alloted for the JHU test, you brought me.

Please be aware that swinging a hammer quit being fun a long time ago and it'll take more than chump change to make me dig out my swage blocks. But, I will, if the price is right. :)


Since you have little interest in "playing" with a pretty girl, I'll pass.

This could have fun if we did this in our birthday suits......awww....
you might learn something..........ohhhh my baby.........


Com'on let your hair down and
please lighten up, I am here for the fun of it, not to be so serious all the time.
________
WENDIE 99
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 11:54 #109

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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ladyblacksmith in gray, deletia

Since you have little interest in "playing" with a pretty girl, I'll pass.

Thank goodness! The very thought of swaging out race plates makes my shoulder hurt.

This could have fun if we did this in our birthday suits..

While I'm sure I'd enjoy the visuals, I fear the sight of my nekkid body might have quite the opposite effect on spectators and passersby.

....awww....you might learn something.....

No thanks. I've got plenty of forge scale scars on my tong arm and I don't want to explain how I got those new scars on my impedimenta. My wife is notoriously narrow-minded about such matters. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 12:08 #110

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
With all due respect, you have only to stop reading if you find the going "tedious."
Maybe. Unfortunately all to often this kind of garbage is showing up threads that could have intelligent use but that are just being dragged down in to the muck by those of our brethren that avoid respectful discourse in favor of repeated attack. However, what is tedious is having to sort through this negativism to find the something useful. But as the punch line of the joke goes, "With all this horse manure there must be a pony in here somewhere."
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Are you suggesting that some two week shoeing school dropout's ability to shoe a horse is worth just as much as that of an experienced farrier.
No and you know that. But I suspect that your desire to beet your anti anyone that says anything you can not refute drum leads you to try and torque the imagery that way as a means of avoiding addressing the real article imbedded in my statement. The article here being what we all charge as a minimum, not what we are all worth.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Please delineate the exact means by which you feel any union operating in a state that allows closed shops can be of possible benefit to anyone other than themselves.
This is so simple as to be at the first grade level. Non union shops pay union equivalent wages and benefits to avoid becoming union shops. The unions by negotiating better wages and benefits for their membership are positively affecting the wages and benefits of their non-union brethren. This affect is even felt in "Right to Work" states where unions exist. Laws protecting workers health and safety can tracked back to union activism. Recognizing these facts does not make me pro union, it just gives me the ability to recognize the social impact that unions have had on this countries workers without the obfuscating rhetoric of the anti union crowd trying to erase anything from consideration that might mean they would have to acknowledge that there have been some good outcomes in the process.

I am not a big fan of labor unions in their current incarnation. I think that they have morphed into a corrupt and twisted image of what they once were and that until they rediscover some of their purer intent they are doomed to continue their downward spiral into further despotism. But I am also unwilling to ignore their positive impacts in order to focus exclusively those negative aspects that I deplore. This is called balanced thought and critical thinking, you should try it sometime.

In the specific case involved in this discussion, the JHU, I do not see why everyone is wasting their time. If the JHU has more than the 3 members that I am aware of I would be a touch surprised. If it has more that 50 in the entire country I would be down right shocked at my inability to estimate. Given these numbers I’d say that the JHU is a non-entity and does not deserve any of my time effort or energy which is why I do not engage George on the issue.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 12:29 #111

  • George Geist
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In the specific case involved in this discussion, the JHU, I do not see why everyone is wasting their time. If the JHU has more than the 3 members that I am aware of I would be a touch surprised. If it has more that 50 in the entire country I would be down right shocked at my inability to estimate. Given these numbers I’d say that the JHU is a non-entity and does not deserve any of my time effort or energy which is why I do not engage George on the issue.

Hey Ron,
I have no problem with anything you say and as I said I'm not sure about the numbers myself because most of us don't have much contact with anybody outside our locals.

I'll say that even if you're correct in your estimation why is it that you'll take GPF seriously and not us then? Personally I find it difficult to take seriously any organization that doesn't require testing for membership but you know that.

Don't misunderstand I'm not bad mouthing GPF in fact I think they'll be a good thing so long as Tom Bloomer keeps steering the ship.

Now, in all fairness I didn't start this one this time. Admittedly I can instigate but this time is not as it appears. Linda mentioned something about the Union, these guys went into attack mode and the fuse was lit. I do ride for the brand and lead from the front so when my group is getting beaten up on I'll be there.

As I said before this has been going on for many years. Since the founding of the AFA matter of fact.

Personally I think I'd rather wrestle a grizzly than argue with Tom Stovall! The things I do for my beloved Union :D
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 13:04 #112

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Ronald E. Kramedjian in gray, my old stuff in brown, deletia

With all due respect, you have only to stop reading if you find the going "tedious."

Maybe.

No "maybe" to it, either you choose what you read or you don't.

Are you suggesting that some two week shoeing school dropout's ability to shoe a horse is worth just as much as that of an experienced farrier.

No and you know that.

Nossir, I know nothing of the kind. I read what you wrote, but clairvoyance is not one of my talents.

But I suspect that your desire to beet your anti anyone that says anything you can not refute drum leads you to try and torque the imagery that way as a means of avoiding addressing the real article imbedded in my statement. The article here being what we all charge as a minimum, not what we are all worth.

You appear to be berating me for your inability to express yourself. In reality, you have no idea whether most farriers charge more, less, or exactly what they're worth as the price the public pays for their services is a function of supply and demand, not self-image.

This is so simple as to be at the first grade level. Non union shops pay union equivalent wages and benefits to avoid becoming union shops.

Whatever gave you such a silly idea? Unless there are artificial economic constraints, such as a closed shop, there is no incentive for management to offer wages and benefits beyond that associated with a worker's productivity. Small wonder that piecework is an anathema to unionists.

The unions by negotiating better wages and benefits for their membership are positively affecting the wages and benefits of their non-union brethren.

Silly me, all these years I've been thinking that unreasonable union demands were at least partially responsible for the flight of US industry to foreign soils.

This affect is even felt in "Right to Work" states where unions exist.

Do tell? Please be kind enough to delineate the exact means by which the rates negotiated by the JHU on a union track affect the price I charge a barrel racer for evaluating and shoeing her horse.

Laws protecting workers health and safety can tracked back to union activism.

The flight of manufacturing and heavy industry from our country can also be tracked to union activism - and not nearly so far back. Historically, there have been abuses on both sides, but history is not at issue. At issue is the illogical comparison of the AFA to the JHU.

Recognizing these facts does not make me pro union,


What facts? Your argument became fatally flawed when you presumed non-union shops pay union wages in order to avoid becoming union shops.

it just gives me the ability to recognize the social impact that unions have had on this countries workers without the obfuscating rhetoric of the anti union crowd trying to erase anything from consideration that might mean they would have to acknowledge that there have been some good outcomes in the process.

There's no obfuscation involved in pointing out union excesses: one does not praise the beauty of a rose by denying it has thorns.

I am not a big fan of labor unions in their current incarnation. I think that they have morphed into a corrupt and twisted image of what they once were and that until they rediscover some of their purer intent they are doomed to continue their downward spiral into further despotism.

Coulda fooled me.

But I am also unwilling to ignore their positive impacts in order to focus exclusively those negative aspects that I deplore. This is called balanced thought and critical thinking, you should try it sometime.

I'll stick with healthy skepticism rooted in reality. As I see it, you're trying to pass off fence-riding political correctness as "critical thinking" - but all that'll get you is splinters where you don't want 'em. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 14:56 #113

  • George Geist
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Silly me, all these years I've been thinking that unreasonable union demands were at least partially responsible for the flight of US industry to foreign soils.
Please expound upon that a little further. The high water mark of unionism was the early 1950's. Is no accident that it was also the high water mark of a thing called the middle class. Now you choose to blame corporate greed on organized labor who are less than 10% of the workforce. That dog wont hunt.
The only growth in organized labor since the '70s has been in government.
Do tell? Please be kind enough to delineate the exact means by which the rates negotiated by the JHU on a union track affect the price I charge a barrel racer for evaluating and shoeing her horse.
WHOA, TIME OUT! JHU does no negotiating of pay or anything of the kind. Their members are independent businessmen who set their own prices just like everybody else. The only thing they'll negotiate on the track is for payment to the guy who works the paddock. To suggest anything else is at best factually innaccurate and at worst a damn lie!
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 15:45 #114

  • HoustonFarrier
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Ok...now, about Linda and her birthday suit....... :eek: :cool:
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. - Henry Ford (1863-1947)
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 22:15 #115

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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George Geist in gray, my old stuff in brown, deletia

Silly me, all these years I've been thinking that unreasonable union demands were at least partially responsible for the flight of US industry to foreign soils.

Please expound upon that a little further.

What part didn't you understand, I'll be glad to expand the premise.

The high water mark of unionism was the early 1950's. Is no accident that it was also the high water mark of a thing called the middle class.

One hates to interject reality into a good union rant, but the postwar boom and little things like the GI Bill and FHA loans to returning veterans might've had a little something to do with rise of economic viability in the Middle Class in the 1950s, as well as the economic boom generated by the Korean War. Unfortunately for your argument, the fact the "high water mark" of the Middle Class was not confined to closed shop states renders your argument laughably specious.

Now you choose to blame corporate greed on organized labor who are less than 10% of the workforce. That dog wont hunt.

That dog will not only hunt, it'll catch! As advertised, organized labor's greed and intractability was demonstrably, at least partially, responsible for the flight of American industry to foreign soil. (Note that partially does not imply wholly.)

The only growth in organized labor since the '70s has been in government.

Now I'm confused. If organized workers are a Good Thing for America, why are organized government workers a Bad Thing? What's good for a plumber is not good for a garbage man?

Please be kind enough to delineate the exact means by which the rates negotiated by the JHU on a union track affect the price I charge a barrel racer for evaluating and shoeing her horse.

WHOA, TIME OUT! JHU does no negotiating of pay or anything of the kind. Their members are independent businessmen who set their own prices just like everybody else.

Is it your contention that rates at union tracks are not fairly uniform? That negotiation relative to pricing of services does not take place between union platers? C'mon Mr. Geist, you know better. If not, then the JHU is worse than useless, because the cost of plating a race horse at tracks in right-to-work states is more-or-less uniform and on par with that of closed shop states in terms of actual buying power. (i.e., $60 in Sallisaw will buy more goods and services than $120 in New Yawk.)

The only thing they'll negotiate on the track is for payment to the guy who works the paddock.

Who needs a union for that? In 1977, Gateway Downs in Holly, CO offered me $20; I held out for $30; they caved in. Hot damn momma, we gonna be rich! :)

To suggest anything else is at best factually innaccurate and at worst a damn lie!

In reality, to suggest that the cost of plating a race horse at any track, union or non-union, is anything other than the product of collusion between platers is a damned lie. There are no secrets on the backside: One person pharts, everybody smells it.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:JHU & AFA 02 Aug 2007 23:23 #116

  • TLowe2012
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Tom, was fingerprinted in Oklahoma, New Mexico and Pennsylvania. Not fingerprinted in West Virginia and Kentucky. Oh, Sallisaw is up to $70 now.

Tony
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RE:JHU & AFA 03 Aug 2007 00:28 #117

HoustonFarrier wrote:
Ok...now, about Linda and her birthday suit....... :eek: :cool:


Hey sweetheart, while the kids duke it out;
I'll be playing in my birthday later!
.................dear........
________
Video review
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RE:JHU & AFA 03 Aug 2007 00:35 #118

ladyblacksmith wrote:
Hey sweetheart, while the kids duke it out;
I'll be playing in my birthday later!
.................dear........

Okay, enough already your makeing me blush. :o
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:JHU & AFA 03 Aug 2007 00:47 #119

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ladyblacksmith, Have you checked out any major med. policies? My wife and I with 3 kids is about 250 month on our policy. It covers the big hospital stay plus couple office visits a year and reduction on meds after deductible. We put extra away each month kinda like a med savings plan to cover extra office visits or meds. Good plan if everyone is pretty healthy.
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RE:JHU & AFA 03 Aug 2007 00:58 #120

TLowe2012 wrote:
ladyblacksmith, Have you checked out any major med. policies? My wife and I with 3 kids is about 250 month on our policy. It covers the big hospital stay plus couple office visits a year and reduction on meds after deductible. We put extra away each month kinda like a med savings plan to cover extra office visits or meds. Good plan if everyone is pretty healthy.


.......THANK YOU ..THANK YOU......TLowe................

Tell me where I can get this plan and its right within my means to Pay too!!
Please let me know any phone numbers, and address, name, and and web address where I may find out!.........thanks, this made my night!!!!!
...........................Linda............................................
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